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Bharat
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PostSubject: @Gamukh   Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:51 am

So, if there is any uninhabited part of your land, then you wouldnt mind if anybody takes it, right? So much for their 'Kashmiri soil' sympathising, they didnt even care about parting with it.

Then, I guess you shouldnt mind us integrating all the barren landscape across the state, right? Yes, I agree I am a tad ignorant about it, as local Kashmiris themselves dont seen to care about it. Now, let me ask you, why are you NOT protesting against POK? Are they uninhabited too? Shocked
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Bharat
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PostSubject: @Gamukh   Sat Aug 01, 2009 3:19 am

Quote :
It is your ingrained intolerance to change that made you perceive my post refer to Islam.

Change? Change to what Islam? What else were you referring to. If you were referring the Mughals as civilized, tolerant and non-barbaric, then you must worshipping the Taliban right now! Razz
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Shahab
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PostSubject: Bharat Maata Murda Baad   Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:57 am

@ Bharat
[quote]Aksai Chin was annexed by by China in the Sino-Indian war when China defeated the slum dogs miserably and took this territory as war booty just like how the Afridis bashed the Indians in 1948 and took half of Kashmir (Pakistan Occupied Kashmir and northern areas of Gilgit and Baltistan). Now India can do nothing about it cause if it raises this issue too much at international forums....it will be like digging its own grave cause the Chinese will say "If you guys and the Pakistanis can hold onto the Kashmir illegally and in total contravention of International law, why can't we Chinese share the pie too". India is at the verge of signing off Aksai Chin forever to the Chinese in return for the Chinese acceptance of Arunachal Pradesh as a part of India. Over all the cunning(MAKAAR) Indians stand to gain territory overall as gifting Aksai Chin to China(Which never belonged to the Indians in the first place) for Arunachal Pradesh in return will do two things.....it will make the Chinese accept the rest of Kashmir as a legal part of India (in return for Aksai Chin) and the bonus would be Arunachal Pradesh.

The Pakistanis saw this was coming and by ceding the karakoram tract to China and therefore kept the Chinese on their side, these are things that not many of us know....now China in the future will again rake up the issue of Arunachal Pradesh and maybe Sikkim but the slum dwellers have already gifted the Aksai Chin to the Chinese and are silent like a grave.
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Bharat
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PostSubject: @Shahab   Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:20 pm

Firstly, I am glad that you took my advice and started talking sense instead of some non-reply worthy kiddish jargons you used to post before.

Quote :
Aksai Chin was annexed by by China in the Sino-Indian war when China defeated the slum dogs miserably and took this territory as war booty just like how the Afridis bashed the Indians in 1948 and took half of Kashmir (Pakistan Occupied Kashmir and northern areas of Gilgit and Baltistan).

Yes, We got defeated by China bcoz we didnt consider them a threat before, what with all those panchasheel talk etc. Our Kashmiri PM, Nehru blindly truested them. But, bcoz of that loss, we started focusing on building up our military power, which wud not have happened.

But your second line, you again feign ignorance or are a Pakistani to believe that they won the war. Show me any unbiased record, which says that Pakis won any war against India. We would have regained all the POK then itself, but for the stupidity of who else, but our Kashmiri PM, Nehru to internalize the issue and brought an abrupt end to the war.

In your vague argument about the politics between India and China, you are losing the point that I have been raising. As a "Kashmiri" "freedom fighter"(lol), fighting for an Independent Land, how does it matter whether China defeated India or India defeated Pakis. It is after all "YOUR" soil, right? But you have no objection if others "occupy" your soil, but keep crying hoarse only against India, who btw entered the soil after your very own king asked us to. Whether you like the king or not is none of our concerns. When it took place, he was the ruler of Kashmir.And as far as we are concerned, we are defending it against infiltrators.

It is this Kashmiri hypocrisy that weakens your case as an genuine "movement", but is infact nothing more than piece of Pakistani propaganda to destabilze it and thereby India. Jai Hind! king
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Shahab
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PostSubject: Bharat Maata Murda Baad   Sat Aug 01, 2009 11:29 pm

Quote :
As a "Kashmiri" "freedom fighter"(lol), fighting for an Independent Land, how does it matter whether China defeated India or India defeated Pakis. It is after all "YOUR" soil, right? But you have no objection if others "occupy" your soil, but keep crying hoarse only against India, who btw entered the soil after your very own king asked us to. Whether you like the king or not is none of our concerns. When it took place, he was the ruler of Kashmir.And as far as we are concerned, we are defending it against infiltrators.

Our King at that time thought you Indians might protect him from us Kashmiris as we were getting ready to overthrow him on our own, The quit Kashmir movement of 1931 was not against the Indians (As Indians were under the British colonialists then) but against the tyrnat ruler then. He was very very unpopular amongst us Kashmiris and in order to save his own skin and property, he signed an accord with you (He was given the guarantee by the cunning Indians that all his properties/estates will remain under his name if he signs the instrument of accession- the Kashmiris on the other hand did not want the Maharaja to own nothing and would have deported him to India). Its just like how many middle eastern monarchies are helped by the Americans even when the people there are fed up and want vibrant democracies/change, The monarchies for their greed to hold onto power continue to hold Arab people prisoners with American help (examples are Jordan,Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Qatar, Kuwait etc.

Although Lord Mountbatten accepted the letter asking for help from our so called King, he was aware of the Struggles of Kashmiri freedom fighters of those times against the Tyrant King and therefore Mountbatten included a Para wherein he made it plain obvious that the Indians will withdraw once the War is over and a Plebiscite will be held in J&K supervised by the UN. The Indians had already had one such plebiscite in Junagadh which had a Muslim ruler and a predominantly Hindu population. The residents of Junagadh voted overwhelmingly in favor of India although the Muslim ruler wanted the Pakistanis to take control of the area.

Here comes the Indian Makaari now, On the ground when they were unable to take control of Kashmir (as promised to the tyrant King) as they were being miserably defeated by the Kabailees/Pakistanis. So, in order to stop the advance of the Pakistanis, the Prime Minister of India late Pandit Jawahar lal Nehru then decided to approach the UN to stop the war. So he went to the UN with the statement that India has no designs over Kashmir and wishes to hold a plebiscite and therefore Pakistan should call back its armies. The Pakistanis pressurized by the UN stopped their advance but did not give up on territories that they had already taken i.e. POK and northern areas of Gilgit and Baltistan. Now you may dispute a thousand times about whether you were defeated or not, fact is its Pakistan who took a chunk of territory from the war even when your country had signed the so called instrument of accession with the tyrant unpopular king of Kashmir. To add further misery to our woes you later on lost another chunk to China (Aksai-Chin).

We Kashmiris for some time gave you Indians the benefit of doubt that maybe and we say maybe you will go all out in our favour and fight the Chinese/Pakistanis tooth n nail in order to regain the lost territories.

Your continual inaction from 1965 to 1989 proved it to us that you do not deserve our loyalty nor our affection cause if you did then you would have taken back both POK/Northern areas/Aksai Chin from China. You guys sat over it because you were not interested in how a Kashmiri is being affected by all this.

In front of our own eyes after we signed an instrument of accession with you(whether by deceit or trickery of our King, it does not matter), our motherland was disintegrating further and further.......it was shrinking fast and in just 15 years after 1948, only a third was left with us.

Your army and your government failed miserably in protecting us and on such grounds alone does not deserve our Kashmiri loyalty. Imagine our trauma when just because we tried to be with you (because we though u would protect us) our nation was reduced to third of its former territory.

I as a proud Kashmiri tell you today that if Bharat/India today makes a proclamation at the UN that it will sever all ties with China/Pakistan until all the territories of Kashmir are returned to how they were before October 1947.......I will be the first to take a bullet for India.

India has lost out on its moral ground in Kashmir completely and to me its plain simple. You failed to protect us then and continued your failures......Now the onus is on us, after we succeed in moving your army out, we will approach the UN in a similar manner to oust the Pakistanis/Chinese.
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Bharat
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PostSubject: @Shahab   Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:10 am

LOLOLOL Razz Razz Shahab, Kid there you go again!

I think this one above competes with that "features-matching" crap post of yours. Iam still waiting for a genuine answer which the above aint not. The above post is capable to be made into some B-grade Bollywood movie.You should seriously consider writing scripts, you imagination in Unimaginable! Razz Like I said: GET REAL n GET A LIFE!
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Shahab
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PostSubject: Bharat Maata Murda Baad   Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:23 am

This is exactly the Indifference that makes us fight you Indians tooth n nail. What I have stated is facts.

Also Bharat, I have realized that the moment you have no answers, you resort to dismissing the other person as a KID.

C'mon buddy we are adults here and stop dismissing every argument/discussion that we make as "kid talk.....".Just be a man enough and admit that you have no answers and admit your pit falls.

Maybe you are right about not carrying this discussion forward cause every time you are accosted with difficult questions, you just dismiss it as plain kid talk. Try to convince me that what I said about India/Pakistan/China is kid talk rather than just writing kiddish one sentences and skirting off from the topic. Smile
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Bharat
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PostSubject: @Shahab   Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:44 am

I refer to you as a kid, bcoz you call me "Maata", what else do u expect?

Well, I expect you to be man enough to admit that you have no answers for not protesting against POK or COK. But instead you churn out a rather hypocritical reasoning for not protesting against POK. The above script which you have drafted is nothing but figment of your imagination bcoz you dont have any answers to the question I asked you in the first place.

If you think we are gullible enough to believe that Kashmiris ever supported our country nonsense you are saying. It has no takers, kid! Loyalty and Kashmiris dont go together, kid. All along you were supporting your friendly Pakis n now u are saying that u wanted us to win over them. No wonder, you are distorting the facts of the war towards their side. If you love them so much , go and join them. The truth is the current agitation is nothing more than the result of overworking ISI propaganda to destabilize India and yes, they have been doing that ever since their nation was created.

I dont know how old you are, but your thinking is still kiddish. And dont go towards that "Shahab is Shahid Bhagatsingh-wannabe" jargon that you always use when you have no sensible points to make.
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Chinaar
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PostSubject: Kashmir is for Kashmiris   Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:02 am

@ Shahab.....a good write up bro....you are right when you say that it was Indias duty to protect us from China/Pakistan and in failing to do so they have lost out on their status amongst us. I however disagree though on us Kashmiris ever being loyal to the Indians, they have killed too many of us and hurt us too much for us to ever trust them again.

@ Bharat....grow up bro and try n answer Shahabs truthful questions in a logical way. I accept that Kashmiris will never ever support India but you have to accept the ground realities and let us go. Its true that we will suffer but as someone rightly quoted
Quote :
A bird is ready to suffer the trauma/risk that freedom entails rather than live in the security of a gilded gold cage

@admin, try n encourage discussions rather than brickbatting- we all know it eventually leads to nothing.
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Admin
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PostSubject: Re: How to describe India   Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:12 am

@chinaar

no brickbatting, no censoring until someone complains.

@everyone
use the "code" feature to post links otherwise it doesnt allow links to be posted.
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http://kashmir.forumakers.com
Shahab
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PostSubject: India has no locus standi on Kashmir   Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:35 am

@ Bharat,

Just answer my queries logically and stop beating around the bush.

@ Chinaar,

bro, I know we will never be loyal to the Indians but what I was trying to put across is a philosophical thing, I mean had it not been the way India has continually treated us from October 27 1947, we might not be fighting against them today. In other words bro, they have failed to protect us from both Pakistan/China conquests in a miserable way. On top of that, these Indians now ask us why we are not fighting against Pakistan/China......Its like the Jailor(INDIA) asking the prisoner of war(Kashmiri) why he is not waging a war against the Jailor's enemies. I mean why should we fight against the Pakistanis/Chinese, they were never our enemies, they are the enemies of the Indian state and not of us. The Chinese have never ever in our history staked a claim on Kashmir and the Pakistanis have morally/ethically supported our fight against the Indians.

Bro, I followed all the links that you had put up on the other page n it truly is amazing how India is trying to contain us and sow seeds of discord amongst us.
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Bharat
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PostSubject: @Chinaar   Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:37 am

Quote :
you are right when you say that it was Indias duty to protect us from China/Pakistan and in failing to do so they have lost out on their status amongst us.

Get the facts write about "your" Kashmir first. India was on the verge of winning back the land but for the fact that Mr.Nehru internationalized the dispute, a ceasefire was called. That POK that u guys contribute as Pakis' success, was nothing but the result of the stupidity of a Kashmiri PM we had.See what happens when you move out the Army? Now, you know why 6 lacs troops roam your soil, eh?

Becoz when we left, you saw how your "friend" Pakistani invaded 'ur' soil. So, quit cribbing about their presence now. And as far as the "status" remark is concerned, exactly who are you to talk about status? What has been your contribution to our country, but terrorists and havoc?

First ask what you have done for your country, and not what the country has done for you? You connive with the enemy, rejoice when troopers get killed and you expect us to believe that trust and loyalty crap of yours?

And Shahab, Kashmir is incapable of handlling stone-pelters, let alone whatever is left of the valley against three nuclear neighbors. And i know u wud say "dont bother about what we do", well we would bother as it is our soil. And come what may, we will also never stoop down to the whims and fantasies of traitors like you.


Quote :
@ Bharat....grow up bro and try n answer Shahabs truthful questions in a logical way.

What questions? I am still waiting for a logical answer to mine, when did he raise any? And even you agree that his India-loyal Kashmiri statement is crap

Quote :
I accept that Kashmiris will never ever support India but you have to accept the ground realities and let us go.[/

And why would we? We have done enough partition of our land. Nothing more needs to be done. If Kashmiris stop supporting terrorists and conniving with Pakis, they wudnt have to put up with the treatment meted by the forces. As you sow, so shall you reap!


Quote :
A bird is ready to suffer the trauma/risk that freedom entails rather than live in the security of a gilded gold cage

Really nice Quote! Just that it is the other way around. Rather than creating a better future in progressive, stable India, you want to go back to regressive, talibanized Pakistan or rather into an Independent fool's paradise. Good luck to all of you, Guys!Live and I know it is really difficult for you guys, but if possible, LET live!
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Bharat
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PostSubject: @Shahab   Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:46 am

Quote :
In other words bro, they have failed to protect us from both Pakistan/China conquests in a miserable way. On top of that, these Indians now ask us why we are not fighting against Pakistan/China......Its like the Jailor(INDIA) asking the prisoner of war(Kashmiri) why he is not waging a war against the Jailor's enemies. I mean why should we fight against the Pakistanis/Chinese, they were never our enemies, they are the enemies of the Indian state and not of us. The Chinese have never ever in our history staked a claim on Kashmir and the Pakistanis have morally/ethically supported our fight against the Indians.

Dude, Whatever Happened to your Fight for Independent Kashmir Soil?? Typical Kashmiri Hypocrite! It is really laughable that the crusaders of Kashmiri freedom movement have no idea of Past, nor present! And Ofcourse, Pakis wud support u bcoz they know if Kashmir is unstable, so is India. But, so much for your Soviet Union talk about India, Pakis couldnt save Bangladesh and despite having the same religion are on the verge of disintegrating themselves into pieces. This is what happens when a nation is formed on the basis of Hate.

And your loyalty to the enemy is Exactly why you are treated the way you are. You not only deserve it, you have Earned it! Like I said: But for the fact that it wud mean giving away a part of our soil to traitors, I honestly dont care a damn to it. I see zero contribution of Kashmir to India other than terrorism. It used to be beautiful ages ago, but now it is nothing but showpiece land with no inner beauty and fighting its heart out to go into the hell of Talibanization!
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Shahab
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PostSubject: Kashmiris deserve the right to self determination   Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:02 am

Quote :
Becoz when we left, you saw how your "friend" Pakistani invaded 'ur' soil. So, quit cribbing about their presence now. And as far as the "status" remark is concerned, exactly who are you to talk about status? What has been your contribution to our country, but terrorists and havoc?

Wow, u need to improve upon your IQ, when did you leave, As I understand you were never there before October 27 1947. Also, the status of Kashmir as it stands today in the UN charter is that of a disputed territory. The Pakistanis admit it to being disputed, it is the Indians who are dilly dallying and playing the delaying tactics.

Quote :
Now, you know why 6 lacs troops roam your soil, eh?

Thank you Bharat, I admire your courage and guts as an Indian to atleast accept that your troops are on our soil. Thank you once again.



Quote :
You connive with the enemy, rejoice when troopers get killed and you expect us to believe that trust and loyalty crap of yours?

How do you feel when a Kashmiri gets killed, what does your gut feeling tell you? How does an Indian feel about a 120,000 Kashmiris being ruthlessly murdered by the Indian army,Need I say more.......

Quote :
And why would we? We have done enough partition of our land. Nothing more needs to be done. If Kashmiris stop supporting terrorists and conniving with Pakis, they wudnt have to put up with the treatment meted by the forces. As you sow, so shall you reap!

Its not your territory, it belongs to us Kashmiris....however you can enjoy the territory after exterminating the Kashmiri race....you have reached approx 120,000 dead now.....you still will have to kill approx 8 more million before you enjoy our territory completely, until then we will not stop exposing your tyranny to the whole world.

Quote :
And even you agree that his India-loyal Kashmiri statement is crap

For once even you agree that Kashmiris will never be loyal to India, so all the election gimmicks is crap-right. I thank you once again for accepting that Kashmiri loyalty towards Indian is pure crap although to bring it out I had to use an old trick in the book of the cunning Indians.

Quote :
if possible, LET live!

I couldn't agree more Bharat, Just let go and let us Kashmiris live. We are ready and will face the consequences of our decisions.....Just LET LIVE.

In the end, I thank BHARAT TO AGREEING WITH US KASHMIRIS ON A WHOLE SET OF THINGS.
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Bharat
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PostSubject: @Shahab   Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:36 am

Quote :
The Pakistanis admit it to being disputed, it is the Indians who are dilly dallying and playing the delaying tactics.

We consider it as disputed, but only the POK which we want it back.

Quote :
Thank you Bharat, I admire your courage and guts as an Indian to atleast accept that your troops are on our soil. Thank you once again.

Welcome, just one question though: when did we not admit their presence? It is just that you are aware of the reason of their presence. If you dont mind Pakis invading and China taking a part of ur soil, then you have lost any legitimate right to express any hypocritical concern on the presence of forces on the India's Kashmir

Quote :
How do you feel when a Kashmiri gets killed, what does your gut feeling tell you? How does an Indian feel about a 120,000 Kashmiris being ruthlessly murdered by the Indian army,Need I say more.......

I feel just like you feel when militants kill our soldiers.

Quote :
For once even you agree that Kashmiris will never be loyal to India, so all the election gimmicks is crap-right. I thank you once again for accepting that Kashmiri loyalty towards Indian is pure crap although to bring it out I had to use an old trick in the book of the cunning Indians.

I think you suffer from some kind of Selective amneisa. I have always maintained that Kashmiris and any muslim can never be loyal to their nation. The election which you guys attended just doesnt show loyalty. It shows the true face of Kashmiri hypocrisy. The cunning Kashmiri has no interest for an Indepnedent land or development. It is just the typical muslim tendency to cry foul to seek priviledges. You guys are one really confused clan!

Quote :
Its not your territory, it belongs to us Kashmiris....however you can enjoy the territory after exterminating the Kashmiri race....you have reached approx 120,000 dead now.....you still will have to kill approx 8 more million before you enjoy our territory completely, until then we will not stop exposing your tyranny to the whole world.

Please refer my other posts and also the posts in the other threads for the reply to the "Kashmiri ownership" debate. And even we wouldnot stop till, we get rid of all the traitors! People who support terrorists cannot be the flagbearers of Justice or humanrights. Shooting a terrorist is not a crime!Your 'innocent' bluff has no takers in this world!


Quote :
I mean why should we fight against the Pakistanis/Chinese, they were never our enemies, they are the enemies of the Indian state and not of us. The Chinese have never ever in our history staked a claim on Kashmir and the Pakistanis have morally/ethically supported our fight against the Indians.

This every statement speaks volumes about Kashmiri hypocrisy in what they claim to be fight for an Independent land. Why should you fight against Pakistan?? Dude, because, they invaded "Your" Kashmri soil! All your arguments so far about Kashmiris anguish is nothing but a joke!
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Shahab
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PostSubject: Kashmiris deserve the right to self determination   Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:00 am

Quote :
I feel just like you feel when militants kill our soldiers.


lol! lol! lol! Thank you Bharat MAATA....thats why we Kashmiris can never trust the slum dwelling Indians. Shame on you, I was talking about innocent civilian Kashmiris here, If you feel glorious by killing innocent unarmed civilian Kashmiris...then very truly you are a barbarian nation as rightfully quoted by gamukh on this blog.

Although I have tried repeatedly, but its useless discussing issues with you- you are a brainwashed fanatic Hindutva agent. Laughing

[quote][/b]Kashmir Zindabad, Hindustani Kutto Hamaari zameen chod do, "Heound Yaar gov Kaaveour Naar"[quote]
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Bharat
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PostSubject: @Shahab   Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:01 pm

Quote :
Shame on you, I was talking about innocent civilian Kashmiris here, If you feel glorious by killing innocent unarmed civilian Kashmiris...then very truly you are a barbarian nation as rightfully quoted by gamukh on this blog.


Well, your terrorists kill innocents(the figure u quoted includes those killed by militants, those who are militants and those who suppport militants). Our soldiers need to protect you from your own people. And yet, you rejoice when they are killed. This is Ungratefulness at its WORST!Shame on you, Selfish and Cunning Kashmiris!And as far as I am concerned, I may even sympathize with the enemy, but there is NO question of sympathizing with terrorism-sympathizig Traitors!
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Gamukh
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PostSubject: Re: How to describe India   Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:25 pm

@bharat mata

You call your occupation troops here "soldiers".
We call them slumdogs. And these slumdogs are terrorists.
They kill innocent Kashmiris and therefore they are indeed terrorists. (Bomai, Khaigam, shopian murders in the past few months just to name ones in recent memory--all victims innocent Kashmiris, and all perpetrators Indian Army men)
If any Kashmiri says that they do not rejoice when a slumdog occupation terrorist is killed, they would be lying.
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