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Ajaz
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PostSubject: Muzaffarabad Challo   Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:57 pm

The Muzaffarabad Challo event is of historical importance yet you have no topic on it?
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harshu
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PostSubject: More important than Muzzafarabad   Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:26 pm

Ajaz wrote:
The Muzaffarabad Challo event is of historical importance yet you have no topic on it?

To all my Kashmiri Muslim Brothers,

Why did you all forget your roots , I hope that all my fellow brothers agree that you all have been converted to Islam , thou your forefathers all have been hindus.

OK leave off religion, why do Kashmiri Muslims are not agreeing to donate land to Amarnath yatra devotees , though they might use it for 2 months.

Why do Kashmiri separatists insits that they do not agree Hindus to use the land even for their 2 months.

I read that Kashmiri separtists stating that this land cant be used by non muslims.

Do you think that this move by Kashmiri Muslims is good.

I hope that you may answer my question without any prejudice...?

Regards
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Ahad
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PostSubject: Re: Muzaffarabad Challo   Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:10 am

Your information is wrong. Kashmiris are saying that all HIndus are welcome to use it; however why do they need to transfer 800 Kanals when they are welcome to use 5000 Kanals of land. Why do we have legally transfer the land?
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corekashmiri
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PostSubject: Reply to Ahad and fellow bloggers   Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:06 am

Hi Ahad and who ever shares his point of view,

everyone including me would feel really good by your reply.
But the so called or self proclaimed leaders of Kashmir be it Omar Abdulah, Rubiyah Sayed etc dont seem to share your view.

It would have been great to hear such a news that people of kashmir rather than taking their carts towards Muzafrrabad had rather moved towards amarnath and tried building the shelters for yatris irrespective of the land being given to them or not.

It would have worked wonders to the confidence of people who are agitating in Jammu.

You and me as citizens know that it is political handle which omar and sayed and who ever wants to come to power is using to his advantage.

Who is suffering, the people of kashmir like you and me.
The people who would have facilitated the yatris would have been muslims who would have had their daily bread and butter.

I am not sure whether you have had a chance to see katra or vaishno devi and see how the geography has benefitted because of having a board rather than government taking care of it. How well it has build a sizable middle class out of petty shopkeepers and labourers.

Do you really think that handing over 40 canals of land which are meant to build facilities to yatris would change the demographics of Kashmir.

does it change the demographics of india when they provide huge haj subsides to muslims.
does it change the demographics of india by having Ajmer sharief or any other muslim shrine in India.
Does it change the fact that India has more muslims than the entire population of muslim pakistan.
Does it change the fact that India has had more than 2or 3 muslim Presidents.
Does it change the fact the super stars of biggest film industry in the world are all Indian Muslims in India.

Its high time for people of Kashmiri to really think what is good for them.Be pragmatic.
Does it really make sense to be part of Pakistan state, which has failed completely.
Does it make sense for Kashmiri people to make themselves the likes of taliban and do what they have done to their country.
Do you really want Kashmiri women be treated the way taliban in afghanistan or pakistan treat them.
Don't you realize when the world is getting globalised, when the borders all over the world are fading, u want to draw another border and kill what ever opportunities of economic growth Kashmir has with India.
Do kashmiris really think that this is possible being with Pakistan or being Independent when u have hawks like Pakistan, China and Russia around you.
Kashmir was one state tourist Industry of India till 1989 when terrorists completely killed it. Who got affected, who lost the economy..a normal kashmiri citizen.
Did India do it?
I keep reading kashmir's alienation with Delhi?
Do you think its different for Patna, Lucknow, Chandigarh or any other state capital or state with Delhi?
Why does Kashmir stand out, just because its muslim majority?
What does it speak about kashmiri Muslims then.
Who were the leaders Farooq Abdullah, mufti sayeed and the likes.
Kashmir no doubt needed a revolution but the path was wrong. It had to be a fight again State establishment not the Indian state.
trust me i am short of thoughts to understand, why would anyone in the world go to pakistan of all the people for help who can't help themselves.
the country which thought that East Pakistan muslims were lesser mortals than West pakistan.
Do you think they would treat kashmiri muslims different.
Have you ever tried to compare our kashmir prior to 1989 and PoK?

I personally believe that kashmiri people are an intelligent lot and know whats right for them. The tragedy has been that it has been unlucky with its leadership the way muslim pakistan has.

Kashmiri people have to make the right choices, make the right decisions.
There has to be a peoples movement against the current leadership.
There has to be some one from Kashmiri muslims who stands up and calls spade a spade. there has to be kashmiri leader who talks about economic growth.

i feel sad for so many lives lost for a wrong vision.
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mana
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PostSubject: Re: Muzaffarabad Challo   Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:02 am

Mr Corekashmiri, I doubt you are really kashmiri because of the reasons that I will be pointing out below. I will respond to your post point by point.
Quote :
everyone including me would feel really good by your reply.
But the so called or self proclaimed leaders of Kashmir be it Omar Abdulah, Rubiyah Sayed etc dont seem to share your view.
First of all, this sentence alone is necessary to figure out that you are a non-kashmiri. As far as this life-time is concerned, Rabaiya Sayed has not decided to join politics. However, Mufti Sayyids other daughter mehbooba Mufti is certainly the PDP president. Regardless, all these politicians have repeatedly declared their unconditional support of the yatra. Most Kashmiri leaders have even visited the base camps and shown their support of the Yatra. This incldues even the separatist leaders.
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mana
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PostSubject: Re: Muzaffarabad Challo   Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:35 am

Mr Corekashmiri, I doubt you are really kashmiri because of the reasons that I will be pointing out below. I will respond to your post point by point.
Quote :
everyone including me would feel really good by your reply.
But the so called or self proclaimed leaders of Kashmir be it Omar Abdulah, Rubiyah Sayed etc dont seem to share your view.
First of all, this sentence alone is necessary to figure out that you are a non-kashmiri. As far as this life-time is concerned, Rabaiya Sayed has not decided to join politics. However, Mufti Sayyids other daughter mehbooba Mufti is certainly the PDP president. Regardless, all these politicians have repeatedly declared their unconditional support of the yatra. Most Kashmiri leaders have even visited the base camps and shown their support of the Yatra. This incldues even the separatist leaders.

Quote :
It would have been great to hear such a news that people of kashmir rather than taking their carts towards Muzafrrabad had rather moved towards amarnath and tried building the shelters for yatris irrespective of the land being given to them or not.
Again your knowledge of the current affairs of Kashmir decieves you, but please dont take it to your heart, it is for no fault of yours. The fault lies squarely with the biased Indian media who would not want the ordinary peace-lovng citizens of India to form a soft corner for the suffering masses of Kashmir, if they were told that Kashmiri citizens went out of their way to offer the stranded yattris food and sheltter and even separatist Kashmris whom the Indian media brands as Islamic fundamentalists also provided relief to the stranded yatris. No, the indian media would never inform you of that, now would they?

Quote :
It would have worked wonders to the confidence of people who are agitating in Jammu.
It should have but it didnt. that is the indian media for you.
In all reality the current situation in Jammu is the makiing of the BJP and shiv sena, jan sangh and their ilk.

Quote :
You and me as citizens know that it is political handle which omar and sayed and who ever wants to come to power is using to his advantage.
Like I mentioned before, you are misdirecting you blame toward the wrong recipeients. The blame lies squarely on hindu fundamentalist organizations in jammu who are fanning the flames of communalism and religious intolerance.

Quote :
Who is suffering, the people of kashmir like you and me.
The people who would have facilitated the yatris would have been muslims who would have had their daily bread and butter. I am not sure whether you have had a chance to see katra or vaishno devi and see how the geography has benefitted because of having a board rather than government taking care of it. How well it has build a sizable middle class out of petty shopkeepers and labourers.
I couldnt agree more. In fact kashmiris are looking forward for more yatris and tourists. However transfering land to them is altogether a different ballgame. The hindu fundamentalists are confusingg gullible indian masses that the issues are interlinked.

Quote :
Do you really think that handing over 40 canals of land which are meant to build facilities to yatris would change the demographics of Kashmir.
Yes I sincerely do. The yatris have over 100,000 kanals of land at their disposal in way of paths, rest spots, parking etc. They can pitch a tent on this forest land on their base camps, just as they have been doing for the past century and a half wihtout any transfer of land documetns. Why the shrine board requires the legal transffer of 800 kanals of land is absolutely unnecessary because they can use the land without any such legal transfer taking place. Kashmiris are quite aware of the Israeli tacticts in Palestine. They say that you should learn from the mistakes of others.

Quote :
does it change the demographics of india when they provide huge haj subsides to muslims.
does it change the demographics of india by having Ajmer sharief or any other muslim shrine in India.
Does it change the fact that India has more muslims than the entire population of muslim pakistan.
Does it change the fact that India has had more than 2or 3 muslim Presidents.
Does it change the fact the super stars of biggest film industry in the world are all Indian Muslims in India.
Again more propaganda fed by hindutva agencies. The Kashmiri muslim is from Kashmir, and their issues are different from either the Indian muslims or Pakistani muslims.

Quote :
Its high time for people of Kashmiri to really think what is good for them.Be pragmatic.
Now you are talking. Kashmiris know what is good for them and hence opposed the land transfer to non-kashmiri state subjects as it was illegal according to the constitution of J&K. You might not be aware, but Kashmir has its own constitution which parallels the Indian constitution. Guess the hindutva parties dont want you to be aware of that?

Quote :
Does it really make sense to be part of Pakistan state, which has failed completely.
Mixing issues. Who is talking about joiining Paksitan? we are just demanding the right to abide by the laws of the land. The law of the land states that no non-kashmiri can procure land in Kashmir.

Quote :
Does it make sense for Kashmiri people to make themselves the likes of taliban and do what they have done to their country.
Does it make sense that Indians cannot feed their hungry children who come in droves to Kashmir to beg and steal? hope you get the idea why i answered this way

Quote :
Do you really want Kashmiri women be treated the way taliban in afghanistan or pakistan treat them.
we dont want them to be burnt like satis either or killed like honour killing in punjab or haryana. we dont want them to be burnt for not bringing sufficient dowry like is prevalent in most of india. Rolling Eyes

Quote :
Don't you realize when the world is getting globalised, when the borders all over the world are fading, u want to draw another border and kill what ever opportunities of economic growth Kashmir has with India.
and then it would be safe to say that Indians are going to invite their masters of yester years, the British Raj, back to india because indians have finally realised that borders are disappearing and hence nationalism and self-rule are a thing of the past Rolling Eyes

Quote :
Do kashmiris really think that this is possible being with Pakistan or being Independent when u have hawks like Pakistan, China and Russia around you.

why cant we all live peacefully together as neighbours? educate yourselff about the conditions on which kashmir acceded to india. it was on three, JUST THREE areas. Defence, foreign affairs and currency. We did not sell our souls or agree to micromanaging of our affairs by india. It is shameful for indians to be talking like ignorant buffoons about kashmir being an integral part of india. No it is not. We acceded as an indepent nation did on cerrtain conditions and those condidtions have been violated.

i will reply to the rest of the points later.
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ACKLES
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PostSubject: MUZAFRABAD   Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:21 pm

Dear Mana,
Very nice approach, I really like the way you have made sense in your post. However, being a human I do differ from your point of view on various things...

You have mentioned that Mufti's other daughter is in politics, very true...but what does it change? It of course proves that Corekashmiri is not a Kashmiri, but who cares? The fact is that if one daughter is not in politics & the other daughter of a Traitor is in politics, the damage is still the same.

Well well well, your point of Self Rule..... where you say you don't want to go with Pakistan, may I ask you from where did you get all the Guns & Ammunition to feed your so called Freedom Struggle? Was it from Pakistan, Afghanistan or China? Because as per best of my or anyone's knowledge Kashmir doesn't have any Industry to produce them?

I honestly think the Confidence of Indians or Hindu's in Kashmiri's (Muslims) is not totally dependent on Land Transfer, it goes 61 years back. I truely hope or you can read history that when after partition, Pakistan Tribals attacked Kashmir how much of Maharaja's army (Muslim's) turned the sides?

As far as your Law Of The Land clause, let me enlighten you about the History a little bit, as I don't know what they made you read in the school, when India (& today's Pakistan & Bangladesh) acquired Independence the only choice to all the States were to go with either India or Pakistan. The decision was left to the head of state, which at that time was Maharaja. Who in his full authority declared to be with India. Now, who else has got a right to challenge that? If anyone does not abide to it, it is Treason & the only thing left is Punishment.

As far as your comments about Globalization & India going back to British Rule, this is honestly the most Childish comment in your whole post. I think you really need to get a life here & grow up a little bit, I mean come on even if it happens it's still better than being ruled by Pakistan Razz !!!

You have calculated the land what Yatri's use for all type of activities, do you also have a figure the land of India is used to keep Kashmiri's alive with all the food, medicine & other supplies coming all the way from India? Maybe you should write a post to thank the people of India.

Oh, the point of Indian's coming to Kashmir to beg & feed.... the only things I remember are "HATOS" (hope you understand) working at Bus Stations, Mata Vaishno Devi & other parts to do labour work & [obscene language deleted by admin]. So I think we have shaddy sides all over.

I do understand your point of not letting your women burnt & killed for dowry, [obscene language deleted by admin] No !!!

When talking about Religion, please be careful because the whole world would explain you their views about Islam. I think you can Google it & see how much material you want!!! I won't waste my breath in doing so. As far as YOU MUSLIMS OF INDIA, do you even know where did you come from? You all are the converted from Hindu's. Now to be fair enough you all were the LOWER CASTE people who felt easy Prey to Mughals. So please calm down & don't preach us about anything.

We HINDU'S are the most patient community, but please don't take it for granted!!!

We have never tried to get into Kashmir just to show our might or prove something which is ridiculous to do, but if you really want to test the Might.... the options are all open. Trust me or see the History of your so called Mentor Pakistan from where you get all your Goodies to fight Indian Army, when we go in any country WE GO BIG TIME. Nehru & Gandhi are gone long time ago & so are their Ideologies, now its the New India... there will be no Ceasefire.... so sit tight!!!

Have Fun!!!


Last edited by Admin on Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:01 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Obscene language deleted)
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Kashmiri
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PostSubject: Re: Muzaffarabad Challo   Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:19 am

Ackles maybe you should really educate yourself about history instead of making a laughing stock of yourself. Here is an excerpt of Hari Singh's letter of accession. Memorize the sentence where he says that he was considering to remain independent. Princely states had the option to remain independent. But your puny little Indian brain is unable to comprehend that.
Quote :
"My dear Lord Mountbatten,

I have to inform Your Excellency that a grave emergency has arisen in my State and request the immediate assistance of your Government. As Your Excellency is aware,the State of Jammu and Kashmir has not acceded to either the Dominion of India or Pakistan. Geographically my State is contiguous wit h both of them. Besides, my State has a common boundary with the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and with China. In their external relations the Dominion of India and Pakistan cannot ignore this fact. I wanted to take time to decide to which Dominion I should accede or whether it is not in the best interests of both the Dominions and of my State to stand independent, of course with friendly and cordial relations with both..."

Quote :
The ignorant Ackles wrote
when India (& today's Pakistan & Bangladesh) acquired Independence the only choice to all the States were to go with either India or Pakistan.
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PostSubject: VERBAL WARNING TO ACKLES!!   Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:24 am

ACKLES wrote:

Ackles this is a verbal warning that no obscene language will be tolerated on this forum!

Admin
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corekashmiri
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PostSubject: reply to Dear Mana   Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:01 am

Dear Mana,

It seems you have missed the salient points of my post here and tried to point out mistaken names,
blaming everything on Indian media and hindu fundamentalists.
Your arguments seem so outdated from current world we are in.
These arguments were prevelant in the cold war era time when world was not connected the way it is now.
Media wasn't free, you just had state sponsored channels like DD and PTV
Now You have national/international channels to hear them, you have the biggest leveller, the web to get information, without having to blindly follow Osama or Obama or so called hindu/muslim fundamentalists,which in Kashmir it seems is still a common practise.
Can you ever imagine the likes of Barkha Dutt (journalist) and so many others like her in pakistan or any muslim world.
(one of the most famous faces of india journalism who it seems has taken a route to get famous by bashing india)
Can you ever imagine the kind of freedom indian(which includes) kashmir media which so openly are anti-india
and are still published without any problems.
Now to the next point
Does it really matter whether I am a kashmiri or not?
Does it really matter whether it is rubiyah or mehbooba, daughters of the ex- home minister of india
and ex-chief minister on Kashmir. Isn't it a known fact that the the kidnapping of rubiyah was completely orchestrated by him to release the dreaded terrorists whose only job was to kill and terrorize,for a lost and wrong cause.
He proved what kind of a musala-ae-eeman he was, then as a home-minister of India and then again in the current situation. It was his government when he was in power and his ministers who approved the land transfer and then just before election, he and his daughter proved once again how musala-ae-eeman they are.
Don't you see the duplicity in him and how for granted he has taken a simple kashmiri.
He and the likes of him in Kashmiri political space know that kashmiri people can be fooled everytime and thats the reason the likes of him are leading you and you do nothing and blame everything you are made to believe by the cold war
era reasoning of geelani, yasin malik etc of state sponsored indian media, hindu fundamentalists.
I hope you wont disagree with how much, world over, we hear of Islamic fundamentalism and, muslims would just blame others, never looking within.

If India really wanted to change demographics, do you think they would wait 60 years to do that. Don't you think they had enough time
between 1950 and 1989 to do that, when kashmir was in relative calm period and that too after kashmiri muslims(under sheikh abdullah)
had fought along with the Indian army to push back pakistani army raider in 1948. I dont think you like to read that history of probably your immediate grandfathers
I am still not going too deep in history.
But what did India do in this period, made kashmir to have its own constitution, article 370 etc.
Despite all this, what have the kashmiri leaders done and what have kashmiris done to themselves.
the only done is to blame India and the world for all the muslim ills.

Just see the pakistan history, their Quaid-de-azam died in mysterious circumstances, ayub khan took over, u cheered, he was kicked by bhutto, became PM, you cheered, zia-ul-haq hanged him,
u cheered, benazir/sharief were kicked by musharraf, u cheered, musharraf was kicked by sharief, u cheered.

abdullah signed an accord with nehru, u cheered, u didnt want pakistan then, u cheered.
sheikh abdullah was your leader, who was revered by all kashmiris, who championed the cause of kashmir and how did u repay him back,
by digging his grave and urinating there. That is kashmiri musala-ae-eemaan for you.

omar abdullah like his father, an opportunist politician, no where near the stalwart sheikh abdullah was, sides with congress and BJP and who ever is in power
and he says 'jaan denge zameen nahi denge'.
The family raped kashmir and kashmiri people are blind to that, and blame india for that.

Mufti approved the land transfer only to create a scene now and who does kashmiri citizen blame , hindutva forces and India?

Kashmir was given provisions of liberalization and privatization from 1950s, which the rest of the states only got to some extent after 1990s
Notice the difference,many of states thrived and grew after that (last 18 years), the indian people become world beaters, others states are catching up.
What did kashmiri people do since 1950, make just private bus and tempo services.
and the tourism industry was because on the 100% indian tourists, whom they stopped welcoming after 1989

As per you Jammu agitation is a hindu fundamentalist agitation, ok, for a moment lets agree. Did they kill muslims, did they drive muslims out.

Not opening the road to kashmir is an agitation which isn't killing people, but a way to let kashmiri muslims and indian govt. know that the way kashmiri muslim bring indian govt on their knees because of their agitations, so can they?

And you can see how effective they are? you agitated for 4 days,the order was revoked, they have been agitating for the last 45 days and do you see anything happening and this is happening in a so called Hindu majority country you call India.

can you see this happening in any muslim country?

what was the ethinic cleansing on kashmiri pandits in your opinion? another media creation, propaganda by hindutva forces.

Once again the above happened in a so called Hindu majority India.

Siege of chara-re-shrief by muslim terrorists? another hindutva propaganda.


Let me give you a quick crash course of recent history:

Pakistan was born as a muslim country solely for muslims,

india was born with hindu's with their innumerable castes, muslims and their sects, sikhs, christians etc a place where it is said that the dialect changes every 20 miles and language changes every 150 miles.
You are lucky to witness what the state of Pakistan is, so that kashmiris learn from them and also their history.

india had the honour of having the likes Dr.Zakir Husain,Justice Mohammed Hidayatullah and A P J Abdul Kalam as their presidents.
regarding india being the 2nd largest muslim country in world after indonesia, you can google that as well.
dilip kumar, meena kumari, shahrukh khan, amir khan, salman khan, naseeruddin shah, pataudi, kirmani azharuddin, zaheer, pathan,khayyam,javed akhtar etc.
(I will have to write another blog regarding this)

Is this propaganda fed by hindutva agencies? Indian media selling me oranges??

How i wish India could be even 1% like Israel or any other country who dont accept any such nonsense, we wont have had Kashmir problem in the first place.

Had kashmiri muslims known what is good for them, they would have revolted against the abdullahs, muftis, yasins and geelani's.

They would have crushed their voices and told them that they want their flourishing tourist industry back which those opportunists destroyed for their own
selfish reasons and screwed a simple kashmiri.
Prior to 1989, tourist industry to kashmir was 100% tourists from rest of the country. The way NY is to hollywood, kashmir was to bombay fim industry.
can you name me one kashmiri hindu business man who was part of this industry in any way.
Whatever business or government kashmir had was muslim? All the beneficiaries of these were muslims.
you had a carpet industry booming, you had kashmir handicrafts industry thriving and so many and all the by products of tourism. Did India kill it??
or is this again a propaganda by hindutva agencies.

had they known what is good for them, they wont have touched kashmiri pandits who was the backbone of the education infrastructure of Kashmir.
you killed them and drove them away as you wanted to be make kashmir another taliban afghanistan or pakistan.

Had you know what is good for you, you wont have tried to compare the questions i asked about current pak/afghan women conditions and a Sati practice
which is banned by indian law and the off and on news which you hear about them is from people who still are illiterate like you.
Honor killing is a practice taught to Indians from Muslims invaders. Dowry system is a practise which every one despises.
Your comments seem as if all those are Indian laws which a citizen has to practise.
While you fail to understand the condition of muslim women is a direct result of what taliban in afghanistan and pakistan really want to practise and are practising
and thats what geelani saab wants for kashmiri women.

i dont have to depend upon so called hindutva agencies to provide me with information.
We have enough means these days to gain information, which for some reason you dont want to explore, though being IT savvy to write this post.

I need to commend you for the way you responded to my comments.
But I would have liked to hear your answers to the real questions I had asked, for which you decided to reply me later.
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corekashmiri
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PostSubject: Recommendation to Ahad,Mana and fellow bloggers   Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:39 am

Read kashmir history, dont just read what you want to hear or like to hear.
Kashmir history doesnt start with muslims invasions of India.
It has a long and rich history. dont know whether you know about a book named Rajtarangini. this was book which i think was written even before Islam came to India/Kashmir.
Read about the coming of muslims to India, read whether the current kashmiri muslim was a self convert or a forcible convert.
Kashmiri pandits didnt have a caste system. They all were Brahmins. Thats why you will observe that many of kashmiri muslim still carry the Brahmanical last names of Pandit, Bhat, Koul, Dhar etc.
try to look for it, read it and respect your history irrespective of whether it was good or bad.
dont fall in a similar trap to which pakistan fell.
They tried their best to clean their history, trying to identify themselves with Arabians/Iraqies/Iranians which they are not.
There is lot to learn from a Failure which Pakistan is.

Lot to learn from the commonalities of Pakistan leadership and kashmir leadership.
It can't be a magic wand which made India what it is in spite of the disparities and differences it had, which made kashmir what it was prior to 1989.
Nor was God against the 100% muslim country Pakistan with American crutches.

That means there is something which India did right and pakistan didnt.
You have all the time to think and ponder.
request you not to blame state sponsored media and hindu fundamentalism to cloud your thoughts.
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PostSubject: Dear Kashmiri Guest, why didn't you post the full letter   Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:25 am

here it is: and you can also search for it for all those who think otherwise

My dear Lord Mountbatten,

I have to inform Your Excellency that a grave emergency has arisen in my State and request the immediate assistance of your Government. As Your Excellency is aware,the State of Jammu and Kashmir has not acceded to either the Dominion of India or Pakistan. Geographically my State is contiguous wit h both of them. Besides, my State has a common boundary with the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and with China. In their external relations the Dominion of India and Pakistan cannot ignore this fact. I wanted to take time to decide to which Dominion I should accede or whether it is not in the best interests of both the Dominions and of my State to stand independent, of course with friendly and cordial relations with both. I accordingly approached the Dominions of India and Pakistan to enter into standstill agreement with my State. The Pakistan Government accepted this arrangement. The Dominion of India desired further discussion with representatives of my Government. I could not arrange this in view of the developments indicated below. ln fact the Pakistan Goernment under the standstill agreement is operating the post and telegraph system inside the State. Though we have got a standstill agreement with the Pakistan Government, lhe Govemment permitted a steady and increasing strangulation of supplies like food, salt and petrol to my State.

Afridis, soldiers in plain clothes, and desperadoes wnh modern weapons have been allowed to infiltrate into the State, at first in the Poonch area, then from Sia1kot and finally in a mass in the area adjoining-Hazara district on the Ramkote side. The result has been that the limited number of troops at the disposal of the State had to be dispersed and thus had to face the enemy at several points simultaneously, so that it has become difficult to stop the wanton destruction of life ad property and the looting of the Mahura power house, which supplies electric current to the whole of Srinagar and which has been burnt. The number of women who have been kidnpped and raped makes my heart bleed. The wild forces thus let loose on the State are marching on with the aim of capturing Srinagar, the summer capital of my government, as a first step to overrunning the whole State.The mass infiltration of tribesman drawn from distant areas of the North-West Frontier Province, coming regularly in motortrucks, using the Manwehra-Mazaffarabad road and fully armed with up-to-date weapons, cannot possibly be done without the knowledge of the Provincial Govemment of the North-West Frontier Province and the Government of Pakistan. Inspite of repeated appeals made by my Government no attempt has been made to check these raiders or to stop them from coming into my State. In fact, both radio and the Press of Pakistan have reported these occurences. The Pakistan radio even put out the story that a provisional government has been set up in Kashmir. The people of my State, both Muslims and non-Muslims, generally have taken no part at all.

With the conditbns obtaining at present in my State and the great emergency of the situation as it exists, I have no option but to ask for help from the Indian Dominion. Naturally they cannot send the help asked for by me without my State acceding to the Dominion of India. I have accordingly decided to do so, and I attach the instrument of accession for acceptance by your Government. The other alternative is to leave my state and people to free booters. On this basis no civilised government can exist or be maintained.

This alternative I will never allow to happen so long as I am the ruler of the State and I have life to defend my country. I may also inform your Excellency's Government that it is my intention at once to set up an interim government and to ask Sheikh Abdullah to carry the responsibilities in this emergency with my Prime Minister.

If my State is to be saved, immediate assistance must be available at Srinagar. Mr. V.P. Menon is fully aware of the gravity of the situation and will explain it to you, if further explanation is needed.

In haste and with kindest regards,

Yours sincerely,

Hari Singh
October 26, 1947
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PostSubject: Muzaffarabad Challo   Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:40 am

Dear Admin,
My apologies if I got carried away sometime & wrote some wrong words.

Now my dear Mana,
Do you actually have the letter by Hari Singh in which he gave the consent to join India or is it not relevant to you. If you want I can arrange it for you to prove who is ignorant & who needs to go schooling?

If you really want to say I am Ignorant & making myself a laughing stock, then it really depends who is looking at which side of the coin? Is it me or is it you who have been so trapped in the illusion of so called Freedom, however it is too big a point for your little brain to get into. If you would have had the wisdom to see things clearly maybe you won't be making yourself a laughing stock... however it is still not late for you to wake up & realize that shouting for Freedom is an old rotten thing & you guys have to get into the mainstream. Every movement has a life, if you achieve the goal in that it is worth otherwise it becomes like a Hangover which does nothing else than to give you a headache. So is what Kashmir has become to India & all Indians.

Corekashmiri I really appreciate your point of view & the knowledge you have displayed. It does make a point for Mana to say that you are not Kashmiri as he thinks that by saying that he gets an extra millage.

I beg to differ on the point of Omar being opportunist, I am not saying he is not opportunist but it is the nature of Politics simple example BJP when was in power didn't abolish Article 370. This is what is the true meaning of Democracy in India or for that matter also in Pakistan. Pakistan is nothing but the Worst face of India, what we have achieved in last 60 years they will take another 600 to do so.

On top of everything I really thought that this is the place where people are well aware of facts & can put some light to enlighten other people, however it seems some of these people who have access to Internet just come here & try to write even if doesn't make any sense. It will also not make any sense till the time Treason is taken seriously & all the people committing it are either hanged or shot to death.

Hope Indian govt. realizes that pampering separatists is not the ideal solution, or dialogue is not the way to get them in the mainstream. The only way is to force people to respect their country, as the saying goes "Respect is not demanded, it is commanded" this is the time to get to reality & tell the people to either respect or leave.

As far as going to Muzafrabad, this thing is so wrongly handled by govt. of India. They should allow everyone to go to Muzafrabad, however it should be made clear that this is One Way route. You cross but there is no coming back. I know it hurts to leave your motherland, but life is all about making choices. So go, stay & live in your loved Pakistan, no one in India minds that !!! Also if you think that Kashmir is going anywhere, then let me tell you one thing JUST GET OVER IT, IT'S NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. Moreover one day you all will get so tired that you will either stop it or by that time all of you will die. Tum log Jaan bhi doge aur Jameen bhi doge!!! Nahi doge to Cheen lenge!!!

Cheers!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Muzaffarabad Challo   Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:43 am

Thanks Corekashmiri, I hope this proves to Mana who is a laughing stock.

corekashmiri wrote:
here it is: and you can also search for it for all those who think otherwise

My dear Lord Mountbatten,

I have to inform Your Excellency that a grave emergency has arisen in my State and request the immediate assistance of your Government. As Your Excellency is aware,the State of Jammu and Kashmir has not acceded to either the Dominion of India or Pakistan. Geographically my State is contiguous wit h both of them. Besides, my State has a common boundary with the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and with China. In their external relations the Dominion of India and Pakistan cannot ignore this fact. I wanted to take time to decide to which Dominion I should accede or whether it is not in the best interests of both the Dominions and of my State to stand independent, of course with friendly and cordial relations with both. I accordingly approached the Dominions of India and Pakistan to enter into standstill agreement with my State. The Pakistan Government accepted this arrangement. The Dominion of India desired further discussion with representatives of my Government. I could not arrange this in view of the developments indicated below. ln fact the Pakistan Goernment under the standstill agreement is operating the post and telegraph system inside the State. Though we have got a standstill agreement with the Pakistan Government, lhe Govemment permitted a steady and increasing strangulation of supplies like food, salt and petrol to my State.

Afridis, soldiers in plain clothes, and desperadoes wnh modern weapons have been allowed to infiltrate into the State, at first in the Poonch area, then from Sia1kot and finally in a mass in the area adjoining-Hazara district on the Ramkote side. The result has been that the limited number of troops at the disposal of the State had to be dispersed and thus had to face the enemy at several points simultaneously, so that it has become difficult to stop the wanton destruction of life ad property and the looting of the Mahura power house, which supplies electric current to the whole of Srinagar and which has been burnt. The number of women who have been kidnpped and raped makes my heart bleed. The wild forces thus let loose on the State are marching on with the aim of capturing Srinagar, the summer capital of my government, as a first step to overrunning the whole State.The mass infiltration of tribesman drawn from distant areas of the North-West Frontier Province, coming regularly in motortrucks, using the Manwehra-Mazaffarabad road and fully armed with up-to-date weapons, cannot possibly be done without the knowledge of the Provincial Govemment of the North-West Frontier Province and the Government of Pakistan. Inspite of repeated appeals made by my Government no attempt has been made to check these raiders or to stop them from coming into my State. In fact, both radio and the Press of Pakistan have reported these occurences. The Pakistan radio even put out the story that a provisional government has been set up in Kashmir. The people of my State, both Muslims and non-Muslims, generally have taken no part at all.

With the conditbns obtaining at present in my State and the great emergency of the situation as it exists, I have no option but to ask for help from the Indian Dominion. Naturally they cannot send the help asked for by me without my State acceding to the Dominion of India. I have accordingly decided to do so, and I attach the instrument of accession for acceptance by your Government. The other alternative is to leave my state and people to free booters. On this basis no civilised government can exist or be maintained.

This alternative I will never allow to happen so long as I am the ruler of the State and I have life to defend my country. I may also inform your Excellency's Government that it is my intention at once to set up an interim government and to ask Sheikh Abdullah to carry the responsibilities in this emergency with my Prime Minister.

If my State is to be saved, immediate assistance must be available at Srinagar. Mr. V.P. Menon is fully aware of the gravity of the situation and will explain it to you, if further explanation is needed.

In haste and with kindest regards,

Yours sincerely,

Hari Singh
October 26, 1947
Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Muzaffarabad Challo   Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:45 am

Quote :
ACKLES wrote: As far as your Law Of The Land clause, let me enlighten you about the History a little bit, as I don't know what they made you read in the school, when India (& today's Pakistan & Bangladesh) acquired Independence the only choice to all the States were to go with either India or Pakistan. The decision was left to the head of state, which at that time was Maharaja. Who in his full authority declared to be with India. Now, who else has got a right to challenge that? If anyone does not abide to it, it is Treason & the only thing left is Punishment.

This is why i mentioned that you are ignorant because you said that princely states only had the option of either acceding to India or Pakistan or India. But in reality they also had a third option of remaining Independent. Which Hari Singh was seriously contemplating. The invasion by Kabalis hastened that decision and he acceeded to India albeit only surrendered three areas of Kashmirs sovereignty; Defence, Foreign Affairs and Communications. (See where it states that the instument of accession is attached with his letter; it is in that instrument of accession that specifies what areas of sovereignty the Maharaja surrenders)

When Sheikh Abdullah finally ironed out the details of accession, it was understood that Kashmir's relation will only be governed by the instrument of accession.
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PostSubject: Re: Muzaffarabad Challo   Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:56 am

Quote :
Corekashmiri wrote: That means there is something which India did right and pakistan didnt.
Are you living in a fool's paradise? What are you talking about? I see millions of Indians sleeping hungry and begging on the streets with thousands if nut lakhs coming in droves to Kashmir to beg and indulge in criminal activites here. what India are you talking about? I think the propaganda videos of doordarshan has really gotten to your head. stop watching too much TV and step out and see the real india.
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PostSubject: Wake up Kashmiri!!!   Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:33 am

There is a world famous proverb for people like you:

"Two men looked through prison bars, one saw mud and the other saw stars!"

thats the difference between people like you and the likes of Azim Premji, APJ Abdul Kalam, MJ Akbar, Shahrukh/Amir etc, the list is an endless list on hardworking indian muslims who care about their families, communities and country. Such people dont live in a fools paradise thinking of achieving it by killing and getting killed.

i choose to see the india which the above mentioned people are trying to build, i choose to see an India of NGOs and social activists who are fighting for the upliftment of the poor, i choose to see the world of Amir Khan who is supporting Narmada Dam's affected villages.I choose to see the dream which Abdul Kalam has in his eyes. I choose to see the delight which Sharukh or Zaheer or a Pathan gets watching Indians watch them.

"There is no such paradise O kashmiri where you would get beautiful women and worldly niceties in a world after death by waging any kind of jihad".

you should watch a movie named "AMIR" and "KHUDA KE LIYE" which incidently is a Pakistani movie.
it was surprising to know there are some thinking heads there too.

It really is impossible for you to understand anything, who still doesnt want to come out of the world of propaganda videos of DD and doesnt acknowledge where India stands in the world. As per you all the world news about India's growth is DD propaganda. ((who watches DD these days anyway, seems you watch it a lot) )
I really dont want to waste any further time with such empty heads, who acts the way an ostrich acts when a hunter comes to kill it.
Grow up kashmiri muslims, grow up, open your eyes!!! Please!!! before you all are annihilated in the whirlpool of ignorance and backwardness.
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PostSubject: Re: Muzaffarabad Challo   Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:12 pm

Here is the advise corekashmiri gives us Kashmiri muslims.
Quote :
corekashmiri wrote: dont fall in a similar trap to which pakistan fell.
They tried their best to clean their history, trying to identify themselves with Arabians/Iraqies/Iranians which they are not.
There is lot to learn from a Failure which Pakistan is.
Yet When I point out the failures of India with its millions of hungry naked destitute population, he is quick to respond with this bizzare line:
Quote :
"Two men looked through prison bars, one saw mud and the other saw stars!"
So why is this quote not applicable to other developing countries when it fits perfectly to India per mr corekashmiri Rolling Eyes

he further states that
Quote :
i choose to see the india which the above mentioned people are trying to build, i choose to see an India of NGOs and social activists who are fighting for the upliftment of the poor,

and again logic demands that a Pakistani would feel similarly for his country.

This argument about Pakistan is worse than India is childish and immature for you hindu fanatics to be making.
Us Kashmiris want to live peacefully with both of you as an Independent nation. Is this concept really that hard to absorb for you?
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PostSubject: couldn't expect anything more intelligent.   Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:50 pm

the quote is for sure bizzare for you and the likes of you.

who says it is not applicable to anyone else.

but you forget what you see and what pakistan saw in last 60 years and has been seeing the same thing still.
and you fail to see what the mentioned personalities see and what India achieved in last 60 yrs.

had Pakistani felt similarly for his country and had the new age kashmiri felt the same as
Nehru or a sheikh abdullah felt as kashmiris, you wont have seen pakistan and kashmir in such a pathetic condition.

India is looked upon as an Economic Power House which is doing all within it power and limitations (both by products of a vibrant democracy) to uplift its people the way sensible countries are doing, be it china, brazil, mexico etc.

Pakistan is looked down as a cradle of terrorism where Satan himself resides.

Had India not this cancerious neighbour full of evil who besides destroying its own people, is hell
bent on destroying the world with its terrorism.
India being its immediate neighbour is the worst affected of this world cancer called Pakistan (afghanistan got annihilated, bangladesh was left for floods) ,
So dont you think the billions it has to spent to fight the cancer which has affected you and kashmiri muslims
would have been used to uplift the poverty which you tend to see.

I wont reply to your stupid arguments further till the time you dont talk something intelligent or makes some real sense.
Better wait for some one more intelligent than you.

Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. - Mark Twain
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PostSubject: MANA U REALLY NEED SOME SCHOOLING   Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:46 pm

Dear Mana,
The illusion of Azadi, which I promise you is never going to happen is so big in your mind that anything explained to you is a waste of time.

I would also advise the fellow Bloggers to just give up on you.

YOU TO ME SEEM ARE SOME SORT OF RETARD!!! GOD BLESS YOU.
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PostSubject: Re: Muzaffarabad Challo   Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:11 am

In Jammu and Kashmir state India deals with the people according to their religion. In Jammu Fanatic extremist Hindu parties and their activists and the people of Jammu who being armed with swords trishuls( a three edged spear)petrol bombs, who torch lynch and cut Muslims and Muslim cops as well are given cold drinks by Indian Army and Hindu dominated Jammu police. they are given a free passage for attaching Offices of Kashmir based newspapers, Throw petrol bombs on the trucks of Muslim drivers plying on pathankot Srinagar highway. Who set on fire whole Gujjar (Muslim) huts in Jammu.Sambha,Kathua.Indian communal army watches them with pride and pats them.People like Brig.Suchet sing(retd) Who during the time of service took oath under secular constitution was found shoulder to shoulder assisting advising communal and fanatic Hindus how to attack and enforce economic blockade against Muslims of Kashmir,Doda,poonch . And harass Muslims of Jammu region. If a person of such calibre and post in Indian army can be of dubious character what about the common solider of this army. After the events of Jammu it should be eye opener of everyone who harbour illusions about the secular fabric of Indian army. We remember that during Gujarat massacre of Muslims we were told that had there been army called out by George Fernandez ,Muslims could have been saved but time has proved wrong. What is the difference now when in Gujarat an ex M.P (Muslim) is killed by throwing burning tyre on him in the absence of Army and fanatic Hindu youths who on riding a motorcycle throw petrol bombs on a Kashmiri Muslim truck driver who got burnt 90% and is waiting for death to overcome him as all the burnt people die of septicaemia. Sure death. This all was done in broad daylight in the presence of Hindu police and Secular army of India.Now the question arises how many Suchet singhs will be in the Indian army having masks of secularism on their face and when they get an opportunity to inflict harm to the Muslims they would be doing that without any let or hinderence.If Govt.of India wants to give an example to others then it should annulate the pension of this communal ex Brig.Take the medals if any from him as a punishment for defaming the army,otherwise this taint will remain on the army and secular fabric will be always disputed.

Now lets talk about what the same army does when they are in Kashmir.Unarmed protestors whose weapon is faith and trust in Allah,Who never pour venom against Hindus.Who consider Common man of Jammu their own.Who take Hindu piligrims on their shoulders to their place of worship high up in the mountains of Kashmir.Who at the time of the adventure of tribals in 1947 saved the Hindus in Kashmir only for their betrayal in 1990 when the same Hindus left valley in order to Give Jagmohan a free hand to Kill the Muslims in Kashmir which he did with full impunity.Freedom is a right of every Human being.Kashmiris who were betrayed and deceived by Sheikh Abdullah want freedom from Indian occupation and want use the right of self determination as promised to them by UN and the first prime Minister of India.When Kashmiris raise their voice against the oppression and ask for eroding the cease fire line so as to avoid confrontation with Hindu fanatics of Jammu, ask for freedom. The secular army of India spray them with bullets and such tear gas shells which are supposed to used during combat. Beat them with Bamboo sticks to pulp. In 21 century a protest rally in other parts of world is stopped by spraying water on the protestors so that no life is lost. But India doesn't consider Kashmiris their citizens which have been proven again again and again from 1947 till date. Why then kashmiris should consider themselves Indians. In Kashmir when people protest army gets so frustrated that they enter residential houses and beat the immates break windows, Molest women.
The cold blooded killings of last two days have revealed again the real face of secular India and its secular army.Kashmiris who were caught between a rock and hard place by the economic blockade were just trying to get their Just voice heard by the higher authorities of India. If govt. of India would had clamped curfew in the city as soon as the time of March towards Muzzaffarabad was announced we would have understood that all this is done in good faith but Unfortunately The occupational forces have long ago tasted the blood of unarmed Kashmiris and they want to taste it again and again.The unknown graves in Kashmir. The fake encounters.Criminal attacks on ambulances and doctors who were transporting injured.Beating women and children have again proven the dubious attitude of Indian army and its sister forces towards Kashmiris.Now it’s a high time for kashmiri's to understand that its do or die situation now and as we all know that Independence from Indian occupation cannot be a reality until we all fight together against those who have deprived us of it fro centuries.We must listen to our leaders and act as per their command so as to get success.May god Help Kashmiris.

Your fellow kashmiri
Dr,Bilal Sheikh

Ministry of Health.Saudi Arabia
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PostSubject: Re: Muzaffarabad Challo   Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:20 am

kashmiri wrote:
Us Kashmiris want to live peacefully alongside both India and Pakistan as an Independent nation. Is this concept really that hard to absorb for you?

The above line reflects the sentiments on the streets of Kashmir perfectly these days. I have been reading the views of all posters with much diligence and have formed an opinion that most Indian nationals are uninformed or misinformed about the ground realities that led Kashmir to where it stands right now.

First of all, let us get a consensus on the ground realities. We can start off with three basic questions:

1. Do you beleive that an injustice was committed when Hari Singh acceeded to India knowing that a majority of his population was against it? Could he decide the fate of 7 million Kashmiris single handed?

Let's assume that we accept the accession because a majority of you will come for my neck by stating that Sheikh Abdullah accepted the accession in 1952 with strict conditions attached to that. However at the same time UN passed a binding resolution in 1948 that stated that the people of Kashmir should be granted a right to self-determination, so the second point we should build a consensus on is:

2. Whether an independent Kashmir would be against the interests of India and Pakistan.

3. Third point that we should build a consensus on is whether you think Kashmir is a dipsuted region and therefore not an 'integral' part of india as many like to claim.

Lets start a meaningful discussion here and let's leave our emotions behind and debate on merit rather than personal attacks.
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PostSubject: Re: Muzaffarabad Challo   Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:58 am

Posted from the internet edition of Times. Admin is this allowed? If not, then delete this..
This is the best write up on the events right now. It details the fanaticism of Hindu fundamentalistts and their hatred of Kashmiris. I would like ot know what the opponents have to say to this.


Quote :
Jammu flare-up and the ideology of hate
By Syed Ali Safvi


The land row and subsequent political and economic crisis have raised many a question and exploded many a myth. It has also exonerated Mohammad Ali Jinnah’s demand for a separate nation for Muslims. The father of the Indian nation, Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, once said that India would be known by the way it treats its minorities.


If Gandhi were alive today, he certainly would have hung his head in shame after seeing his dream of Hindu-Muslim-Sikh unity being tethered by some Hindu fanatics who are hellbent on spreading communal animosity.

It has been proven time and again that the Indian state has failed to protect its minorities. The West Bengal riots, the Delhi riots, the 1984 Sikh riots, the Babri Masjid demolition, the Baghalpur riots, the Gujarat pogrom, and hundreds and thousands of such communal riots in a span of less than 60 years have exposed the underbelly of Indian secularism. Now, the Jammu region is in the throes of a communal flare-up, and if effective measures are not taken to douse the flames, the conflagration will engulf all of India, with disastrous consequences.

Protestors in Jammu have been given a free hand, as Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) Chairman Yaseen Malik aptly put it, “Protestors are playing a friendly match with the police.” The attack on the Greater Kashmir (GK) Jammu office at Gandhi Nagar has underlined and attested to the truth in Malik’s proclamation. On the contrary, police are manhandling the protestors in the Kashmir Valley and resorting to extreme measures to quell their protests.

According to a report, police in Srinagar have been using a “sophisticated and dangerous weapon” called Rudra -– which is only allowed to be used in military operations -- on the unarmed peaceful protestors. This shows that the police and paramilitary forces have been using different modus operandi in the two regions.

India boasts about its tenets of secularism and democratic values, but it is just empty rhetoric that is not reflected in the realities on the ground. The world has seen how secularism and the “age-old history” of religious tolerance were trampled upon in Gujarat by the successors of Vinayak Damodar Savarkar’s ‘ideology of hate’. The seeds of communal hatred were sown by the members of the Hindu Mahasabha long ago, even before the very idea of Pakistan came into being.

Contrary to the common belief that Jinnah originated the two-nation theory, actually it was Savarkar who propounded the theory years before the Muslim League embraced the idea. Savarkar had commanded all the Muslims to leave ‘Bharat’ to pave the way for the establishment of Hindu Rashtra. When Jinnah introduced his two-nation theory, Savarkar announced, “I have no quarrel with Mr. Jinnah’s two-nation theory… It is a historical fact that Hindus and Muslims are two nations.”

“His (Savarkar’s) doctrine was Hindutva, the doctrine of Hindu racial supremacy, and his dream was of rebuilding a great Hindu empire from the sources of the Indus to those of the Brahmaputra. He hated Muslims. There was no place for them in the Hindu society he envisioned.” (Freedom at Midnight, by Dominique Lapierre and Larry Collins).

So the hate campaign against Muslims was well in place even before the partition of erstwhile British India. This and many other significant factors forced Jinnah to demand a separate nation for Muslims as he believed that Muslims would not be safe in India -- a prophetic declaration indeed! There is no denying the fact that Jinnah was secular to the marrow and would never have wished to cut ties with India, but circumstances compelled him to do so. However, he had not harbored grudges against India or its leaders. He had kept his house on Malabar Hill, thinking he could weekend there, while running his country from Karachi on weekdays, but destiny had something else in store for the estranged neighbors of the Asia Partition.

When Nathuram Godse pumped three bullets into Gandhi, a section of the Hindu community compared him with Judas. The writing was on the wall. The divide was evident. In some areas people mourned the death of Gandhi, and in other areas they distributed sweets, held celebrations, and demanded the release of Godse. Gandhi’s crime was that he had demanded security for Muslims.

The seeds of partition were actually sown by the stalwarts of Hindu Mahasabha, primarily the quartet of Savarkar, Gawarikar, Apte, and Nathuram Godse. Independent India’s history is testimony to the fact that in a conflict between the forces of secular nationalism and religious communalism, the latter has always ruled the roost. Secular forces have more often than not ended up playing into the hands of communal forces. Such has been the history of independent India, and it is again on display in Jammu.

Jammu has always been a communally sensitive region compared to the Kashmir Valley. Muslims of Jammu have borne the brunt of communal hatred before when Maharaja Hari Singh, with the help of the armed bands of the extremist militant Hindu party Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), slew thousands of Muslims and forced the exodus of over 100,000 Muslims from Poonch. Interestingly, while the government is making every effort to facilitate the return of Kashmiri Pandits back to Kashmir, nothing has been done to bring back the refugees of the Jammu exodus.

The authorities have miserably failed to protect the hapless Muslims in Jammu. The protestors are doing things at will, even when the so-called curfew is in place. The Hindu fanatics have wreaked havoc in Akhnur Tehsil (50 kilometers from Jammu) and the authorities are haplessly watching as mute spectators.

The State of Jammu and Kashmir has reached a stage where the integrity of the state is threatened.

The economic blockade imposed on the Kashmir Valley by Hindu fanatic forces has intensified the crisis. The Kashmir leadership is now exploring trade options via Muzaffarabad, something that should have been done long ago. Anyway, “deer ayad durust ayad” (better late than never). In the wake of the road blockade, it becomes imperative for Kashmir to explore alternative road links instead of being dependent on the current insufficient linkages. Through the Jhelum Valley road, Kashmir can restore its ties with China, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Central Asia. And there is one more benefit. It is the only route that is free of snow in winter owing to its low elevation. Therefore, it will ensure an uninterrupted flow of traffic year-round.

This route has historical significance, too.

“The Jhelum Valley route was, until the partition, the easiest route from the Punjab to Kashmir. It was also convenient for those who wished to proceed towards Attock and Peshawar from Kashmir. It also must have been used for Kashmir’s trade with Persia and western Turkistan. Hiuen Tsiang and Ou-K’ong entered Kashmir from the west by this route, and it is by this route that many learned scholars and Sufis from Persia and Turkistan came to the valley.” (Kashmir under the Sultans by Mohibbul Hasan)

There are also reports in the media that in Uri protestors have threatened to cut power exports to counter the economic blockade (GK, August 9). If political parties in New Delhi, irrespective of their political ideology, do not immediately intervene and make efforts to pacify the agitators in Jammu, the State of Jammu and Kashmir could very well be divided along religious lines. Here, the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) is seeking to play a major role. In the run-up to Assembly and Lok Sabha elections, the party is trying to get political mileage out of the land row, but its members must make sure that the situation does not get out of control. If that happens, as one of my friends said, “We would see the Red Army in Ladakh, the Green Army in the Valley, and the Saffron Army in Jammu.” Are we ready for that?

For the saner elements in the Kashmir Valley and Jammu, it is time to show resilience and commitment to religious tolerance. They should not succumb to the pressure and most importantly they must not play into the hands of divisive forces which are hellbent on dividing the state along religious lines. For the authorities, it is like one of those bad dreams where you leave the house and discover you’re not dressed properly. Nonetheless, it is high time they pull up their socks and do what is required.
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PostSubject: Re: Muzaffarabad Challo   Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:11 am

Quote :
corekashmiri: Can you ever imagine the likes of Barkha Dutt (journalist) and so many others like her in pakistan or any muslim world.

Turn on Aljazeera and you will see many. What a silly point to make ? Mad
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PostSubject: Kashmiriyat and Islam   Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:27 pm

I beg to differ in some respect here. However I would like to stress that Kashmiriyat is not about Islam, it is about all Kashmiris. Kashmir has been symbolic for Unity in Diversity. Hindu, Muslim, Sikh Itihad has always remained the mantra. But in last 15 years, the definition of Kashmiriyat has been hijacked and translated to be Islamiyat. How come otherwise you justify the slogans like "Yahan kya chalega, Nizame Mustafa". If the struggle of Kashmir was really taken as the struggle of Kashmiris, it would have much more successful. However the so called leaders chose to make this the battle for Islam rather by alienating Hindu (Pandit) and Sikh communities. This solely is one main reason that in spite of all efforts, the revolution has not been successful. If it was a Kashmiri struggle, it should have been more wider and acceptable.
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