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 Let Kashmiris decide what they want and stop the blood-shed

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anon
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PostSubject: Re: Let Kashmiris decide what they want and stop the blood-shed   Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:23 am

Kashmir does'nt only belong to 'muslims'. Did you or did you not know that??
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ants
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PostSubject: Re: Let Kashmiris decide what they want and stop the blood-shed   Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:01 am

Quote :
I know hundereds of kashmiris who do not subscribe to the views put forth by them

Quote :
they have no problems in accepting the indian democracy and the elections held by them. Despite the most fervent dictat of the separatists in the kashmir valley, the percent polling seems to increase by every phase

One might think you are alluding to Kashmiri muslims in these sentences. But I see you mean KP's.....

have a nice day..i have no time for goofs like you
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anon
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PostSubject: who's a goof?!   Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:06 pm

And that, is in addition to the near 60 % votes polled so far in Kashmir by no other than non- KP's? Do you refute that ..well....even if it comes from a goof?

you know what..... you have a nice day.... you probably need that.
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bins_hi
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PostSubject: Re: Let Kashmiris decide what they want and stop the blood-shed   Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:29 pm

When Kasmiri pandits were thrown out of Kashmir valley then in 1990's , where were these voices of Kashmiri people and Indian people. All KP's were kashmiri.. Those hard times were seen by KP's 1st.. terrorism faced by pandits is world known but where were these voices. What ever is faced by J&K today is hurting.
But I just want to say we pandits were also the part of same land, we also want to live and go back and settle our burnt houses. No body is asking us our decision.
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CC
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PostSubject: Why such double standards   Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:47 pm

WHY does the Indian media never stop rattling about Mumbai terrorist attacks and yet when the European parliament asks the Indian government to investigate the thousands of unmarked graves in Kashmir, the Indian media does not even consider mentioning it????

I am totally appalled when all norms of journalism are thrown away by all these Indian journalists and they become torch bearers of patriotism.

India I am afraid is going the same way as the USA after 9/11 and it is going to have serious repercussions.

Rather than focusing more on the root causes, we are all back to repeating the same mistakes.

It is a cataclysmic cycle of vengeance and counter vengeance which will eventually leave us all in a whirlpool of deceit n debauchery.
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kits
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PostSubject: Re: Let Kashmiris decide what they want and stop the blood-shed   Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:31 pm

Well said CC.
The only difference is that India is an impoverished and pitiful grouping of rag-tag states, which likes to call itself a democratic country! I hope all their army men in kashmir die of cancer.
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Fanaafil
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PostSubject: Well done CC   Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:51 am

Indian intelligentsia is having a nightmare right now in J&K. From continual curfews to no namaazs being offered at Jama Masjid for the 7th continuous week. Well done Coordination Committee.

The next step by coordination committee should be to influence the Mufti-e-azam Kashmir to issue a Fatwa against the Indian puppets in J&K i.e complete socio/religious boycott of people who have supported India in converting Kashmir into a garrison.
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anon
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PostSubject: @fanaticfill   Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:42 am

Well done for sympatizing with the busted CC bubble! Amusing to see the denial mode still switched on Very Happy Now who else seems to be continuously in the denial mode... hmmm.. any common similarities you can think of? lol!
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Fanaafil
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PostSubject: bubble burst!!!   Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:35 pm

@ anon

Keep living in a fools paradise. You have a million troops on the ground to conduct an election n then each time u get people to vote, all the other areas are fortified militarily. Shame on you Indians, u have imprisoned us in our own land n then u go n beat the drums of democracy by giving 5 lakhs to each corrupt candidate excluding the campaigning fees. Every individual family which votes in villages etc gets a 1000 rupees per ration card. What dubious standards,what great morals.

KEEP WATCHING BUDDY: THE BUBBLE WILL BURST ONE DAY.

P.S. TRY CONDUCTING THE ELECTIONS WITHOUT THE ONE MILLION TROOPS (EXCLUDING J&K WHICH STATE IN INDIA NEEDS A MILLION ARMED FORCES TO CONDUCT AN ELECTION?)
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anon
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PostSubject: Re: Let Kashmiris decide what they want and stop the blood-shed   Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:59 am

@fanafil

Here are some points for your consideration:

1. The utmost priority of any government worth its salt in a democratic system is to ensure that people who want to cast their votes during elections, and for whichever canditate they choose, are free to do so. There fore any section of people who are against voting, for whatever reasons, and who threaten the freedom of others to cast their vote, or threaten to cause harm to them will be and should be restrained. J&K is nobody's fiefdom that will ave a group of dissenting people speak on behalf of ALL its citizens. That is your explanation for military fortification in some areas, as well as the concept of democracy.
2. As regards giving '5 lakhs to candidates',... you might like also to clarify who gives this money, and to whom. Who gives the money- a JK citizen; Who takes the money- another JK citizen. So who are you blaming my friend? Yourself? Me? or that punching bag called 'Indian Democracy'! Think a bit deeper and you will know where what you say is leading to.
3. Each voting family gets 1000 rupeed per ration card. Well, its not impossible to believe that, but again, lets see who the end beneficiary of this 1000 rupees is and you'll have the answer.
4. 1 million troops to hold elections- is Just so that those of you who really are peace loving and have nothing to do with azadi politics and want to address their genuine needs for a peaceful and prosperous life, CAN ACTUALLY DO SO-- because they are Indian citizens and believe in Indian democracy.

And by the way, till so far not less than 40 lakh JK citizens have already opted for the so called 'Indian Democracy' by casting their votes. I think this alone proves what a sizable chunk of JK people THINK. The fact is that all those who compose the 'CC' and all those who swear by them know deep within, of the stinging slap imprinted on their face by no other than those who's cause they clamed to orchestrate to rejuvinate their warped ideologies.
My advise to you my friend, is to come out of the shell and sense the mood around you. Settle for regional autonomy, because thats your best bet. India will never give up Kashmir, and neither will Pak. Indian forces will keep comng as long as long as you dont follow the path of peace.
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kits
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PostSubject: Re: Let Kashmiris decide what they want and stop the blood-shed   Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:01 am

@anon

my advise to you anon is that you bring your head out of where ever you have stuck it and sense the mood of the people. If you are hallucinating that the people of Kashmir have given up our hope of independence then you truly are on some substance that we dont want to know about. That is your problem.

The sooner you get out of kashmir, the sooner you can use the same money to feed the starving masses of your pathetic impoverished failed country.
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Fanafila
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PostSubject: Legitimate elections   Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:40 pm

@ anon

My friend, this is a 60 year old dispute where many elections have been enforced and many have not been. To legitimize this particular one is your problem n not mine.

The issue of Kashmir has not died down even after 60 years of brutal oppression. Do you seriously believe that this stupid election will make a difference.

By the way the first thing that every candidate says is that they will fight tooth n nail against the government of India for the resolution of the Kashmir dispute (I leave u to draw your conclusions).

J&K right now may be a fiefdom/colony of India but the desire for justice and equality on the basis of human rights/dignity keeps flying high in our suppressed hearts.

We have seen a lot of these elections before my friend and one more added to the tally does not make a difference.

So don't count your chickens before they r hatched n that too with just one election. Very Happy
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an old g
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PostSubject: Bloody Ostriches   Wed Dec 24, 2008 2:24 am

"hiding their head in the sand, like an ostrich” is said to be foolishly ignoring their problem, while hoping it will magically vanish.

The above saying is apt for the those who still believe that elections are farcical.
Its a slap on the face of CC and such who still are in a mode of denial.
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Suchi
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PostSubject: Re: Let Kashmiris decide what they want and stop the blood-shed   Fri Dec 26, 2008 12:30 pm

In every society there are people with different views....there are majorities and minorities....and they differ in their view points, we -south of the valley in the mainland india feel that kashmir is a prt of the union of india and kashmiris are "one of us"- and that is why when our thoughts do not agree to yours, we are surpsied....- you live in the same india, you should be having the same freedom(you deny it), you have the same access to facilities(you deny this too) and you have ur own share of blood sucking leaders and corrupt politicians(you deny this too, apparently out of faith for your leaders)..
May be the same way, the kashmiri living in the towns is a little different from the ones out in the villages...may be that is why they voted more heavily than the one in the tows, you heard to ur leaders of the CC, they heard to their basic needs....they needed some facilities which they feel their elected reps would get them....u did not agree to it, for them it was an election for local governance, for u azadi was important.....so be it, u want to call it a bubble, go ahead and do that.....

I don't know if have watched an ad from tata tea....stupid as it may sound, the punchline is "Jaago re"....and it talks about changing the system using democracy.....why not try it, i read koshur's blog pretty regularly, and he suggests the same( i may not agree completely to pre deciding the outcome though:) - stand up for the elections, win it and raise ur voice in the assembly.....wht let people with 2000 votes out of 80000 win the right to represent you....and then sign a decree giving out land to amarnath trust with the support(??) of 2000 odd people....

i have read that the last time a lot of good(??) people stood for elections in 1988, the elections were rigged and their nominations spurred, don't forget the media now is much more active...they make mountains out of moles, and if the elections are rigged, they would make a hue and cry over it (Indian media is unashamedly commercial and non national types- we can have channels reporting jsut about anything for some ratings), why did no one from hurriyat ever stood for elections.... let them win the popular support and pass the resolution for independence....not sure how many of you would know this, there is a small marathi district of dharwad in karnataka.....these people elected a all marathi municipality( read it just a city council), and the first thing these guys did was to pass a resolution for segregating the distirct from karnataka and merging it with maharashtra.....nothing happened, but everyone now knows that dharwad is a marathi town, different from kannada speacking karnataka

i have multiple kashmiri friends, rite from the richest of the lot (whose only interest is about the 4 seats that their family is contesting elections from) and people from the lower rungs (shawl sellers who come to delhi in the winters and drive taxis in summers in srinagar and surrounding areas), each one of them has a different priority.......i don't know if you would agree the azadi for me would mean "right to a dignified life" - after all kashmiris fro all hues and cries have went out to UK from mirpur and the valley(so much so that it is called a mini mirpur- there is higher population of mirpuri males there than in proper mirpur- mirpur has more pakistanis today than kashmiris), that s a christian country, with half of these people living sad lives since they are illegal immigrants, and they are more screwed up being muslims in UK, wahan to kisi ko azadi nahi chahiye....sirf paisa chahiye.....they went there by choice, by hook or by crook....just to make money, not to gain azadi...!!!

the elections were held by the indian state, with a million security guards around you, you hate the sight of indian army in the state.....okay, so why did ur leaders chose to ask for more security around them, why did they not trust their own people (we in india keep asking thsi to our set of leaders, why do they need SPG and z plus security)......stop being a herd of sheep, just following the one in front of you into a cliff, think what you want and work to achieve that.....if it is azadi that you want, at least define what you want, chalo aur hartal se kisi ka bhala nahi hoga......khud ko change karo, aas-paas khud change ho jayega
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kits
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PostSubject: Re: Let Kashmiris decide what they want and stop the blood-shed   Fri Dec 26, 2008 1:50 pm

I do not agree with all you said Suchi.
But that is one well-written piece.

One thing that the Government of India keeps harping about is the turnout in rural kashmir. as if the coercions, forcibly herding people to the polling booths, threats and intimidation, and warning of dire consequences for not voting make these farcical elections any more legitimate. One more thing, people in some indian newspaper editorials, who are claiming that the turnout in these elections marks the end of the freedom movement in Kashmir are delusional at best!!
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rprtr
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PostSubject: Re: Let Kashmiris decide what they want and stop the blood-shed   Fri Dec 26, 2008 9:58 pm

Following from BBC
Quote :
Outside active war zones (and Srinagar doesn't fit that description any longer) the main city in Indian-administered Kashmir is one of the most heavily militarised places I've ever seen. Hardly a great advert for Indian democracy.
Every 50 metres or so, on every main street, stand several men (or very occasionally women) armed with assault rifles and - more often than not - big sticks. These, it seems, are the only conditions under which elections are possible.
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vakibs
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PostSubject: Kashmiri people want azadi, but leaders don't represent people   Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:27 pm

Suchi,

The leaders in Kashmir represent the interests of two major powers : India and Pakistan. India has obviously more political power on its side, because most of the valley is under its control. But Pakistan has a significant backing as well : particularly in the hardline faction of Syed Geelani, who keeps chanting how badly he wants to get in bed with Islamabad.

The situation in Kashmir is thus similar to another region - Lebanon, which has factions supporting Israel and Syria, but not many supporting the interest of the Lebanese people. The real politics of such a region is run by a hidden agenda of assassinations, plots and counter-plots.

Kashmir has a rich history of assassinations. The most significant one is that of Mirwaiz Maulvi Farooq (the father of the current Mirwaiz Farooq). A leader who becomes significantly strong and individualist becomes a cause of alarm for the power which was supporting him as a stooge before. For example, USA has assassinated Saddam Hussein in a badly planned & badly managed (in media) Iraqi war. Pakistan did the same thing for Mirwaiz Maulvi. In fact, language based nationalism is the worst nightmare of Pakistan. It has a rich history of assassinations and brutal suppression of such movements (anything which has the word "Awami" in its name). Political leaders who won the populist support and formed provincial governments were assassinated when they became too strong to control. Such a thing can never be contemplated in India (Indian government merely keeps such leaders under arrest, sometimes as long as 11 years as is the case with Sheikh Abdullah of Kashmir. India is too worried of its public relations. Like China, Pakistan gives lesser importance to PR. The list of its brutal suppressions include : Awami national league in East Bengal (Sheikh Mujibur Rehman), Awami national party in Pashtunistan (and the Khudai-khidmatgar movement which preceded it), Jamhoori Watan Party of Balochistan (Akbar Bugti). Pakistan also outshines its neighbor on the record of keeping nationalistic leaders in prison. GM Syed of Sind was kept imprisoned for over 30 years.

Other regions of India have had strong nationalist movements, but these have been dissipated quite effectively by the democratic nature of the Indian constitution. These parties (Akali Dal, DMK, Telugu Desam etc) form governments at provincial and even at national level. This level of political nationalism has not yet been achieved in Kashmir. This is all the more unfortunate because Kashmiris do love independence much more than their southern cousins.

The politics in Kashmir is still a set of stooges and backhand deals.

To get a parallel of how these stooges are set up and run, you should look at feudal history and the governance of a monarchy (such as Mughal empire, Gupta empire.. etc).

Can Kashmir liberate itself out of this mess and get the leaders that it deserves ? It is difficult to answer yes to this question.

The politics of a country is primarily dependent on the level of education of its people. In a society where nobody knows how to read/write, the only acceptable government will be through race loyalties. This was the level of sophistication in all human societies before writing was invented. When there are a few people who know how to read/write (around 10 to 30%), the level of government advances to that of loyalty to religion and resembles feudal structures. As the number of people who can read/write gets close to 100%, the government becomes a true participative democracy. The loyalty at this stage will be towards language, instead of religion. India (and specifically Kashmir) has still a long way to go before achieving 100% literacy. Of course, this is not the final step of the evolution, when the 100% of the citizens can access and use the internet, the society is bound to achieve a much more sophisticated democracy (not yet achieved anywhere in the world).

So you cannot find fault with Kashmiris for electing these kind of douche-bags as their leaders. All we can do is "hope" that they will find good leaders, at some very near point in the future.
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sartaj
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PostSubject: Re: Let Kashmiris decide what they want and stop the blood-shed   Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:24 am

get ready for the "indianisation" of kashmir now that Omar abdullah will be CM.
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guest
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PostSubject: Insha Allah   Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:15 am

Insha Allah...may this wish too come true...
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anon
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PostSubject: @ SARTAJ   Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:11 pm

My friend @ Sartaj here might like us to know what makes him so different that Mr. Omar Abdullah will now have to subject him 'indianization'!!
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MS
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PostSubject: Re: Let Kashmiris decide what they want and stop the blood-shed   Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:03 pm

Often the two members of a family feel that staying far would help in improving relations and they get separated; they get closer to few other members, new members also join them.... but believe me there is no guarantee that new engagements are going to remain green forever.
This is nature; a kid clings to mother, as a grown-up he/she has own set of friends, then lovers, then they get married, parents become totally obsolete in most of the cases; then kids come.... it goes on.

With every new bonding, an old bonding dies or dims.

How many times we will keep killing older knots?

Is not the problem so grave because as an individual we don't do our jobs honestly?

If each mother takes complete ownership of the two kids she has given birth to; entire world would be taken care of. Simple!

Once Sita said to Rawan's mother that you will be remembered and cursed for nurturing such a son! It is you who allowed him to be what he is today.

Today when I look at Kasab's photo; I feel like putting his mother's photo next to his and make the whole world look at that and spit at that... and every mother/parent to realize that kids take the shape the way they are molded.

Every politician is wrong, every neighbour is wrong, my brother is a cheat, my spouse is bad, my kid is irresponsible.... when will this come to end?

I can blame many parents for delivering so many wrong people around me; whom can I blame for my own kid??? At the end of the day we all are somebody's kid.

It’s high time.

Jaago!!!
Jo theek nahi lagta, wo theek nahi hota.
Apne galat kaam ke liye upar wale ka naam mat lo.
Apne galat ideas ko kisi religion ki philosophy se mat jodo.
Bas suno ek baar ki mann kya kehta hai.
Mushkil bahut hai seedhi raah, lekin bahut acchi hai wo raah.
Jab apne aap se nazrein milane mein aur aankh band kar ke apne aap se baat karne mein darr nahi lagta tab hum sab kuch theek kar rahe hote hain.
Lekin bahut kam log hain aise jo khud se ye keh sakte hain ki maine kisi ka haq nahi maara, main insaan hoon, bhale hee kisi ka bhala nahi kar paya lekin apne khaas logon ke liye kisi ke saath galat nahi kiya.

Ek sunami, ek bhookamp, ek baadh, ek sookha…. Upar wale ke pass bahut options hain.
Leave it to Him!

Uska kaam hum karenge, hamara kaam kaun karega and this is what I said in the beginning…. Just we need to do our jobs responsibly.
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iuyt
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PostSubject: Re: Let Kashmiris decide what they want and stop the blood-shed   Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:34 pm

please translate above hindi part.
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MS
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PostSubject: Re: Let Kashmiris decide what they want and stop the blood-shed   Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:02 pm

translation of the hindi part....


Jaago!!!

--> Get Awaken!!!

Jo theek nahi lagta, wo theek nahi hota.

---> What doesn't feel right to the concious; is not right.

Apne galat kaam ke liye upar wale ka naam mat lo.

----> Don't take HIS name for my/your wrong actions.

Apne galat ideas ko kisi religion ki philosophy se mat jodo.

---> Don't associate my/your wrong ideas with any religion's philosophy.

Bas suno ek baar ki mann kya kehta hai.

---> Just once listen to what your heart says.

Mushkil bahut hai seedhi raah, lekin bahut acchi hai wo raah.

---> It is extremely difficult to follow a straight/simple route but this route is wonderful.

---> I am not sure what a religion can give to me; but when I follow this route I find myself very close to HIM. HE himself is debatable... no form, no shape, is not seen but can be felt; can not be defined in a concrete manner but endlessly can be explaied... it is our perception... at the end of the day!

Jab apne aap se nazrein milane mein aur aankh band kar ke apne aap se baat karne mein darr nahi lagta tab hum sab kuch theek kar rahe hote hain.

---> Close the eyes and if you are fearlessly capable of facing yourselves or talk to yourselves that means things are right.

Lekin bahut kam log hain aise jo khud se ye keh sakte hain ki maine kisi ka haq nahi maara, main insaan hoon, bhale hee kisi ka bhala nahi kar paya lekin apne khaas logon ke liye kisi ke saath galat nahi kiya.

---> But unfortunately there are very few pople who can assure themselves that "I never snatched someone's right; I am a human; may be that I am not capable of helping someone but I have not done wrong to anybody."

Ek sunami, ek bhookamp, ek baadh, ek sookha…. Upar wale ke pass bahut options hain. Leave it to Him!

---> One sunami, one earthquake, one flood, one draught.... HE has several options. Leave it to HIM!

Uska kaam hum karenge, hamara kaam kaun karega and this is what I said in the beginning…. Just we need to do our jobs responsibly.

---> If we start doing HIS job, who will do our jobs and this is what I said in the beginning... Just we need to do our jobs responsibly.
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the_unheard_voice
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PostSubject: @hated-in   Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:06 pm

[quote="hated-in"]
Chinaar wrote:

So to your open-ended question regarding what could make a 70 year old women throw stones at "my" army, I can only guess that it is 1) pre-1989 alienation that Kashmir Valley experienced through botched elections combined with 2) senseless separatist violence that has gripped the valley since 1989 as a result of Pakistani support which lead to 3) heavy-handed (and sometimes unjustified) use of force by paramilitary forces. Any "normal" person will loose sanity in such a situation, it takes leadership to get out of such a mess which in my opinion is sadly missing in Kashmir valley.


Well, it is much much more than that. And how do you define the heinous oppression of the Indian troops, " Heavy-handed (and sometimes unjustified) use of force"... lol... My friend, do rapes and murders and forced disappearances and everyday abuses fit into that description. Let me think... I think you need to stretch your imagination a bit!

I have news for you. The 70 year old woman is not only ready to pelt a stone but keep it pelting until every single Indian soldier has left her mother land. This because her young son, did not return home the day he left to earn his bread and butter, her daughter was raped and killed in front of her eyes, her husband was thrashed because he had a beard. Not because she has gone mad after living 5 years in turmoil!
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rprtr
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PostSubject: Re: Let Kashmiris decide what they want and stop the blood-shed   Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:05 am

@unheard

Hated-in has been defeated in arguments long time ago and does not venture into this forum anymore.
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