HomeSearchRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Selling our sovereignty to the "Impoverished" Indians

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
AuthorMessage
peace
Leading Member
Leading Member
avatar

Posts : 132
Join date : 2008-08-17

PostSubject: @anon   Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:25 am

before u finish ur analysis, here are some more figures....and lets not get into war of words this time and prove our point with facts and figures..
regards
Quote :
The figures for Per-capita Plan Expenditure are ‘heavily’ tilted in favour of Jammu. Jammu division gets 14 per cent extra per capita plan expenditure than Kashmir division. The above gradation makes no surprise of where this extra 14 per cent has been going! You got it! The Geeta Bhawan empire.
Signing off with some other development tit bits. In last two years, under the Central Road Fund (CRF), the number of schemes sanctioned to Jammu stands at 13 with an involved cost of Rs 205 crores. Kashmir gets an amazing 2. That’s not a misprint. The involved cost Rs 24 crores.
Under the Pradhan Mantri Gram Sadak Yojna (PMGSY), the number of schemes sanctioned to Jammu stands at 423 with an allotted cost of Rs 1405 crores, the length of roads in all schemes being 2967 kms. Kashmir gets 414 schemes with an allotted cost of Rs 687.26 crores, the length of roads in all schemes being 1451 kms.
Back to top Go down
hated-in
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Posts : 76
Join date : 2008-09-03

PostSubject: Re: Selling our sovereignty to the "Impoverished" Indians   Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:33 am

ather wrote:
i am sure till now u must have realized that its no point in having a meaningful discussion with hated-in..its a waste of time..get out of it brother.. Very Happy Very Happy

Ok good, but can you please stop making a mess of all the discussion threads by adding random news postings everywhere and instead post them all under one subject in one place. It just makes it a little easier on the eyes to follow.

By the way, I am still trying to read through your Kashmir book. In the meantime, if you have any kashmiri dating websites where I can hook up with kashmiri girls please do let me know. I want to do my bit to change Kashmiri demographics.
Back to top Go down
Kashmiri
Guest



PostSubject: Indian Girls   Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:50 pm

@ Hated in,

Don't worry Hated in, we Kashmiris are generous people we have given you all Pandit Kashmiri girls for spreading your genes but you are probably not capable of doing anything and therefore totally f&$#@d in your mind.

I am formally requesting the Forum administrator to barr Hated-in from this website as his contributions are uncivilized and derogatory to any decent human being. Neutral
Back to top Go down
peace
Leading Member
Leading Member
avatar

Posts : 132
Join date : 2008-08-17

PostSubject: @ kashmiri   Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:33 pm

brother kindly dnt stoop down to the same level as that of hated-in..it shows his mentality and his sick mind..
pandit girls are like our own sisters and we should not in any way insult them or any other kashmiri coz that way we will be insulting our own culture and heritage...these types of comments are to be ignored and i dnt think worth replying..
Back to top Go down
Just Inn
Guest



PostSubject: Dont make it dirty   Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:26 am

i liked the discussions and all the view points, its looks like this forum is gettig bettr day by day , i just have small request dont abuse anyone, let it be a plain and intelliegnt discussion ,

Either you agree to others or others agree to you , if nothing then atlest agree to disagree. study
Back to top Go down
hated-in
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Posts : 76
Join date : 2008-09-03

PostSubject: Re: Selling our sovereignty to the "Impoverished" Indians   Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:43 am

ather wrote:

pandit girls are like our own sisters and we should not in any way insult them or any other kashmiri coz that way we will be insulting our own culture and heritage.

Your propaganda isn't flying anymore. Your "brother" "Kashmiri" above just confessed to "ethnic cleansing" of Kashmiri Pandits. Perhaps now, you won't try to build fairy tales about what happened to Kashmiri Pandits.

By the way, when exactly did Kashmiri Pandit girls become your "sister"? After your separatist brothers "ethnically cleansed" the valley by kicking out all Kashmiri Pandits or before that?
Back to top Go down
hated-in
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Posts : 76
Join date : 2008-09-03

PostSubject: Re: Selling our sovereignty to the "Impoverished" Indians   Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:51 am

Kashmiri wrote:

Don't worry Hated in, we Kashmiris are generous people we have given you all Pandit Kashmiri girls for spreading your genes but you are probably not capable of doing anything and therefore totally f&$#@d in your mind.

Yes, we all know how Kashmiri Pandits were ethnically clenched out of the valley by you and your separatist brothers.

And "spreading genes" may be your cupt of tea, but definitely isn't mine, although dating and propagating genes is a perfectly normal activity, so no thanks but my head is fine.
Back to top Go down
Admin
Administrator
Administrator


Posts : 75
Join date : 2008-07-28

PostSubject: Re: Selling our sovereignty to the "Impoverished" Indians   Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:13 am

hated-in,

This is a warning to keep the discussion civilzed. So far your posts have been that way, but it seems that you are starting to get frustrated and resorting to innuendo.

That's the reason why the propaganda video was deleted. There are other forums where you may discuss your perversions, but not here.
Back to top Go down
http://kashmir.forumakers.com
hated-in
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Posts : 76
Join date : 2008-09-03

PostSubject: Re: Selling our sovereignty to the "Impoverished" Indians   Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:00 pm

Recent events in Kashmir made me doubt whether government was acting ethically in Kashmir. But after understanding some of the thinking and reactions through the small window into the separatist sentiments of Kashmir Valley that this forum provides, I think I am convinced that overall, the government is doing what it needs to do in Kashmir and is acting ethically. I don't identify with separatists, but I certainly have identified with successive governments and it would have been unimaginable for me to see a government that is not driven by overall ethics.

So I am pretty much done here. As for the frustrations and innuendo are concerned, that is pretty much dependent on your own interpretation, perspective, and biases.
Back to top Go down
Mir
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Selling our sovereignty to the "Impoverished" Indians   Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:30 am

Quote :
I think I am convinced that overall, the government is doing what it needs to do in Kashmir and is acting ethically

I am shocked and surprised to learn that!! affraid [/sarcasm]

What did he think we didnt already know that about his Hindutva leanings? Rolling Eyes
Back to top Go down
LiberalM
Guest



PostSubject: Re: unnecessary personal attacks   Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:58 am

Quote :
Mir wrote:
I am shocked and surprised to learn that!! [/sarcasm]

What did he think we didnt already know that about his Hindutva leanings?

Now, come on. This is really unnecessary. I don't see any such leanings in any of his postings.

The number of personal attacks and hatred on this forum is incredible. Perfectly well-meaning people who happen to live outside of J&K appear to be targeted just for being 'Indian'. I am sorry, all it is doing is closing yet another tiny window where there could have been some understanding on all sides, some closure, some peace.
Back to top Go down
Admin
Administrator
Administrator


Posts : 75
Join date : 2008-07-28

PostSubject: Re: Selling our sovereignty to the "Impoverished" Indians   Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:32 pm

LiberalM wrote:
Quote :
Mir wrote:
I am shocked and surprised to learn that!! [/sarcasm]

What did he think we didnt already know that about his Hindutva leanings?

Now, come on. This is really unnecessary. I don't see any such leanings in any of his postings.

The number of personal attacks and hatred on this forum is incredible. Perfectly well-meaning people who happen to live outside of J&K appear to be targeted just for being 'Indian'. I am sorry, all it is doing is closing yet another tiny window where there could have been some understanding on all sides, some closure, some peace.

Dear LiberalM,

Your views are much appreciated and we value your inputs.

As part of moderating this forum, I have to make sure that personal attacks do not distract from the issue being debated.

Would you provide a single instance where any of our Indian friends was personally attacked for being Indian?

Best regards
Admin
Back to top Go down
http://kashmir.forumakers.com
~T
Guest



PostSubject: RE:   Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:46 pm

i don't intend on denying the fact that human rights have been violated in kashmir, which is a shame to any democratic nation, i don't intend to advise on what kashmir can do to sustain itself if it is independent either.
but there is something amiss here, today no country will direct its foreign policy in a way that will not benefit them, so for instance, to see an independent kashmir, india and pakistan will need to take life-threatening risks back home to give up kashmir and say they don't have anything to do with it. now this is not something you can curse the indians and pakistanis for, it is sadly, the reality. to pakistan it is giving up a holy cause, a very important foreign policy goal. to india it is a serious question on its very principles of existence and a dent on its secular image and might trigger similar movements in the already troubled north-east.
so kashmir needs to have enough sympathy in the eyes of the world or have enough resources or 'something to offer' as the west sees it, for them to intervene, as you've seen elsewhere in kosovo or iraq or afghanistan etc now kashmir is neither a former soviet country, nor an oil rich land for the world to spend resources on, sadly again.
kashmir might have all the ingredients to be a successful country, but not enough credibility to be one. it is not that no foreign power knows what has happened and what is happening in kashmir, but no one wants to know what it might transform in the future. i was reading of the merits of islamic law somewhere on the forum...let me tell you, any law based on religious values will be the most ideal for its citizens welfare, but who will implement it in the way it ideally should be? why won't anyone hijack it? like the taliban has hijacked islam, like the sangh parivar has hijacked hinduism, who can prevent these radicals? kashmiris have a history of tolerance and co-existence with hindus in the valley, no one can dispute that, but what is the guarantee that hardliners like geelani won't bring in fundamentalist ideology with active pakistani support? the world also knows this is a possibility. the world and india also knows that it is not in the best interests of the already volatile region to go towards a more uncertain future. further, kashmir doesn't have a singular charismatic leader to follow, and instead has a group of leaders who only appear united, but fail to resolve differences for a greater cause. so a responsible leadership is also a key, someone who can almost single-handedly influence decision making.
so all i am trying to say is, echoing what omar abdullah recently said, it is not a viable option, even though it is probably a right option...~
as i see it, the army should restrict itself to protection of the borders. the paramilitary forces like CRPF should also go back. instead a police force consisting only of the locals should be given charge of civilian security. as they leave, kashmiri militants should give up arms and work with the local government.
kashmiri pandits should return.
free trade should be allowed with the pakistani side of kashmir.
religion should not be allowed to stand in way of governance in kashmir, kashmiri tolerance should prevail over islamic fundamentalism or hindu extremism.

now you can sue me if i have said anything illogical.
Back to top Go down
LiberalM
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Selling our sovereignty to the "trillion dollar economy" indians   Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:52 pm

Quote :
admin wrote:
Dear LiberalM,

Your views are much appreciated and we value your inputs.

As part of moderating this forum, I have to make sure that personal attacks do not distract from the issue being debated.

Would you provide a single instance where any of our Indian friends was personally attacked for being Indian?

Best regards
Admin

Dear Admin,

I appreciate your kind words and thank you for keeping this forum free, open and available for all of us.

My earlier comment was more about the feeling and the vibe that one gets after reading the posts on this forum. One feels that the arguments are not being attacked on their own merit or by presenting a counter-argument but simply on the fact that the argument has come from an 'Indian' and therefore it must be baseless/stupid/illogical/inferior/wrong-headed or unworthy.

The former takes the conversation and the dialogue forward. The latter stops the dialogue and the conversation.
Back to top Go down
Summing
Guest



PostSubject: guest   Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:49 pm

Dear Fellow Commentators and particularly for the the likes of LiberalM, please understand the following and you will get a lot of answers which are troubling your mind. All others here will go in circles without really understanding what is good for them. So I have more or less given up discussion here.They will talk about 'POTENTIAL' of their resources etc. They will ask which Indian was killed. They forget Kashmiri Pandits and still ask questions. They killed the previous Maulvi. They killed Abdul Gani Lone who were supposed to be liberal minded and so many people who talked sense. They will just go in circles because they dont know what they want.
If some one really wants hell, no one can stop them.Here is the crux:

The first thing to understand about the people of the Kashmir valley is that their views are fickle and can see radical changes.

In 1947, in the wake of the tribal invasion led and masterminded by Pakistan, the valley welcomed the Indian Army with open arms. One of INPAD's members, retired Lieutenant General Eric Vas remembers that the soldiers were showered with rose petals. It was thanks to Sheikh Abdullah's secular leadership as well as the Sufi tradition that Kashmiris rejected the poisonous Muslim League propaganda. In 1965, when Pakistan repeated the 1947 feat and sent in infiltrators, there were very few takers for the idea of merger with Pakistan and the infiltration failed to achieve the goal of engendering an insurrection.

In 1975-1976, when Sheikh Abdullah was the chief minister, there was a widespread movement in Pakistan occupied Kashmir to march to Indian Kashmir -- an exact opposite of the present Kashmiri slogan of 'Chalo Muzaffarabad'.

On April 1, 1979, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto was hanged by military dictator Zia-ul Haq. His hanging sparked off large-scale violence in the Kashmir valley. Those owing allegiance to the Jamaat-i-Islami, led by Syed Ali Shah Geelani, were the main target of attack. Their houses were destroyed by firebombs. The provocation: The Jamaat had distributed sweets to celebrate Bhutto's hanging. It was the Indian Army that rescued Geelani and his people.

On April 4, 1979, Kashmiris held a massive congregation in Hazratbal to thank Allah that they were a part of India and paraded a donkey with a placard that read 'I am Zia-ul Haq'.

The flip side

Post-1947 support for India vanished in a few years. In the late 1950s when Nehru sent Haribhau Pataskar to gauge public opinion in the valley (in order to hold the referendum he had promised), Pataskar told him that the valley was all for joining Pakistan.

Sheikh Abdullah, who was elevated to the status of 'Pir' (holy man) by Kashmiris, fared no better. He died in 1982. Within seven years, his birth and death anniversary became occasions to burn his effigy. A police guard was placed to protect his grave from vandalism. He now became the 'great betrayer' from his erstwhile position of 'Lion of Kashmir'.

Zia-ul Haq, the Pakistani dictator, saw a total reversal of fortunes. His bemedalled photographs began to adorn the homes of Kashmiris.

The late Hamid Dalwai, a Muslim reformist from Maharashtra, recounted his encounters in Kashmir that aptly sums up the reasons for Kashmiri flip-flop. He asked several people as to why they were unhappy in India. The answer given to him by one shikara owner was that they had everything going for them in India, "but after all, must we not care for the flag of Islam?"
Back to top Go down
peace
Leading Member
Leading Member
avatar

Posts : 132
Join date : 2008-08-17

PostSubject: @t-today   Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:12 am

brother i am pleased to ur post..should i say that u have summarised the whole issue in a very appropriate way..there are certain things which i dnt agree upon but that can be sidelined because what i want the members to do here is to come to some common terms between say pro-indian voices and pro-independence voices so that we find a way out of this age old problem...
...i agree with u when u say that it will be almost next to impossible for any government in india and pakistan to even compromise on kashmir issue..but there has to be way out..india is spending approx 1 billion every year in kashmir over its defence..imagine the amount being spent on education and agriculture...as general musharaf rightly said there has to be out of the box solution..
the problem is that india is using its military might to crush the voices of kashmiris..lets stop that first because more the force more anger will be the anger amongst the people...the present anger of the people will take a generation now to change.for that the most important thing is to reduce the number of army people in valley because that will surely reduce the atrocities by the army..only dialogue will not take us anywhere..dialogues have to be with sincerity and honesty which should be aimed to solve the problem..and dialogue should be between india.pakistan and kashmiris..now there are two questions..
1) who represents kashmiris
2) what about the representation of kashmiris on pakistan side..
let us not forget that a solution has to be found for united J&K which existed before 1947...i dnt believe that part of kashmir has achieved independence..that was the view of generation which was the youth in 1947 but the present generation has different views...india claims that the real representatives are the people elected through elections..rubbish..i always say that there are no elections in kashmir but selection by new delhi..if NATO can be used in afghanistan, if UN can be used in africa,iraq then why not the same in the whole J&K(PRE 1947) to have a free and fair poles to elect the real representatives of the people here...
i belive both the countries can find a solution but the problem as u rightly mentioned is the age old foreign policies of both the governments..a real change in approach is needed..
these are my personal views and people might not agree but let us discuss how the future should be...
Back to top Go down
Admin
Administrator
Administrator


Posts : 75
Join date : 2008-07-28

PostSubject: Re: Selling our sovereignty to the "Impoverished" Indians   Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:14 am

Summing wrote:
Dear Fellow Commentators ......[/i][/u]

Welcome back corekashmiri. aka "summing"

It would be better that you use just one username and not post the same comment on multiple threads.
Back to top Go down
http://kashmir.forumakers.com
Chin-aar
Guest



PostSubject: Peace is right   Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:30 am

I agree as a common Kashmiri with the views of Peace.

Fickle we may be in our opinions....but one thing is for sure....We WANT INDIA TO RESPECT OUR RIGHT TO SELF DETERMINATION and of course it goes without saying.....that Indians have never been welcome in J&K
Back to top Go down
guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Selling our sovereignty to the "Impoverished" Indians   Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:31 am

I take it as an honour for you having remembered me.
I am just bewildered by the kind of discussions we are having here.

The reason for posting the comment here again, is that initally I had tried to initiate a new thread with this comment, but it seems you as an Admin put it in the media section where many people won't have read it.
I am not claiming that this comment was mine. As has been the practice of many of my friends here, to quote from various articles from various newspapers in the discussions but never did i see the same thing happening to their posts to what happened to mine.
Was this post too grouse to have remained as a new thread??
Anyways, I was on vacation for some time, so here I am back again and hopefully we will all have a good chat and discussions which I have been enjoying a lot.
Definitely better to get insights of my ex-neighbours thoughts, so here I am.

Regards
Back to top Go down
LiberalM
Guest



PostSubject: Peace and Kashmir Valley   Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:51 am

@peace,

You have raised several good points.

Kashmir borders both India and Pakistan. If India and Pakistan were on the friendliest terms, there would have been no Kashmir problem to begin with, there would have been no promises to be later broken, there would have been no rigging of elections, there would have been no disaffection, there would have been no insurgency, and consequently no heavy-handed presence of para-military forces to brutalize Kashmiris.

But, India and Pakistan are not on the friendliest terms. The strategic importance of Kashmir stems from its being a neighbour to two rival parties. There would be nothing strategic left in Kashmir valley if tomorrow India and Pakistan cease to be enemies and become tight friends. It would just become another valley (a VERY pretty one but just another valley nevertheless) like Doon Valley or others.

So the road to peace in Kashmir in the long term clearly lies in peace and friendship between India and Pakistan.

Peace in currently Indian Kashmir, in the medium term, is clearly dependent on having an atmosphere that is free of insurgency. These military and para-military forces are trained to be ruthless and treat everyone besides them as enemies. Their presence in non-Kashmiri streets is equally ruthless but momentary (due to the momentary nature of the problems they have to face here). It is far better that they go back to their barracks than be on Kashmiri streets. Only after a non-trivial violence-free period has passed will the Indian government allow CRPF to go back to where it came from (just like when it replaced the frontline Army units with CRPF). This is not my wish, that is the way any government worth its salt would think and operate.

In the short term, with elections looming, the problems we see today will perhaps exacerbate as different entities with interests in Kashmir juggle for space in the hearts and minds of the people. Some would call for boycotts, others would urge for active participation, still others would call for strikes, some would call for another armed confrontation, the CRPF will continue to act ruthlessly as it is trained to do, alienating even more Kashmiris from the mainstream, and who knows what games will the Pakistani establishment play.
Back to top Go down
Vikram
Guest



PostSubject: We Indians and our hypocrisy   Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:49 am

Liberal M and other 'mainland' Indians. What are we trying to defend in Kashmir ? I think its just a piece of real estate, we dont empathize at all with their situation. Hundreds of thousands have protested, hundreds are blogging intently but we still refuse to hear them. Isnt our Constitution supposed to reflect some basic democratic values that all Indians are supposed to imbibe or is it just a book which lists all our 'possessions' ?

Just hold a plebiscite in the valley, for the simple reason that there is a mass movement there to politically separate from India. Please dont tell me that then state X will also demand a plebiscite, there isnt a mass movement for independence anywhere else in India (except maybe Nagaland, but even most of them want to remain in India, I have references). That kind of argument is spurious. Hold a plebiscite in the valley and let them decide what kind of relationship they want with India.

For the Kashmiris, some of things that I have read from your side haven been extremely hurtful. Does Kashmir share absolutely no culture with Jammu and India ? Arent last names like Mattoo, Dar and Lone common in Jammu too ? Isnt your language related to ours ? Dont many of you guys watch Hindi movies ? Your comments really make me fear for the attitude of the future government towards India, something that could have disastrous consequences, take a good look at Pakistan.

Khuda Hafiz.
Back to top Go down
LiberalM
Guest



PostSubject: Re: We Indians and our hypocrisy   Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:15 am

@Vikram,

I am not trying to defend anything. I have stated many times before in this forum, that in a politically matured neighbourhood, Kashmir would have been and should have been independent a long time back. Unfortunately that is not the case. There are intense political rivalries in the neighbourhood of Kashmir. There is no win-win-win case out there, just yet.

Kashmir will remain a strategic territory for India, as long as Pakistan remains an enemy. Only when there is genuine peace and more economic integration between India and Pakistan, will Kashmiris have a chance to advance their argument for independence. Unfair for Kashmir ? No doubt about it. Would any country put itself in a strategically weak position at any time in its history ? Unlikely. Just because a country is a democracy does not mean it will act incongruently with its own strategic security. Democracies are just as ruthless in the pursuit of their strategic prerogatives as are authoritarian regimes.

So genuine peace between India and Pakistan is a necessary condition for Kashmiri independence.

Until then, some of the reasonable steps that any Indian government can and should undertake is
(1) to withdraw all CRPF type forces quickly from the streets,
(2) to ensure free and fair polls in the presence of international observers,
(3) to modify article 370 to allow and encourage Indian businesses to come in by leasing land from Kashmiris (outright buying of Kashmiri property should continue to be banned as is currently the case under art 370)
(4) to allow kashmiris genuine autonomy barring defence, communications and foreign affairs (pre 1953 status)

Before condition (4) can be implemented there must be a quid pro quo from the Kashmiri representatives that no part of Kashmir Valley be used for activities inimical to the Indian state.

None of the four things above foreclose any future options for the Kashmiris. It can still get its independence eventually but only when the time is right. There is no shortage of opportunities if there is peace. But then Kashmiris have to believe that only peace will advance the cause of their freedom.
Back to top Go down
Reporter
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Posts : 55
Join date : 2008-08-25

PostSubject: Re: Selling our sovereignty to the "Impoverished" Indians   Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:45 am

@LiberalM
I like the fact that you atleast acknowledge that Kashmiris deserve to be an independent country. However, I have issues with some of your arguments.

LiberalM wrote:
@Vikram,

[b]....Just because a country is a democracy does not mean it will act incongruently with its own strategic security. Democracies are just as ruthless in the pursuit of their strategic prerogatives as are authoritarian regimes.

Can you provide an example of another democratic country that is practising this version of democracy that you pointed? What you just described is antithetical to everything that democracy stands for. The moment you occupy another "neighouring" country regardless of whether you justify it as being in the interest of your strategic security or not; you cease to be a democratic country and morph into a military state.

LiberalM wrote:
But then Kashmiris have to believe that only peace will advance the cause of their freedom.

Correction....Indians have to believe that a peaceful self determination of the people is the only way forward. The peace process starts from there. The recent protest demonstration by Kashmiris were peaceful, and India resorted by killing unarmed protestors. Therefore, it is infact the Indians who need a lesson or two on the merits of peaceful negotiations, rather than military brute force.
Back to top Go down
LiberalM
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Selling our sovereignty to the "trillion-dollar-economy" Indians   Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:06 am

@Reporter
Quote :
Reporter wrote:
Can you provide an example of another democratic country that is practising this version of democracy that you pointed? What you just described is antithetical to everything that democracy stands for. The moment you occupy another "neighouring" country regardless of whether you justify it as being in the interest of your strategic security or not; you cease to be a democratic country and morph into a military state.

The United States is a prime example. It had wars with its neighbours (The US-Mexican war that caused first the separation and later the 'occupation' of California). The US occupies distant foreign lands in a ruthless and ceaseless pursuit of its strategic imperatives. No one can deny that the US is a democracy. A western liberal democracy at that.

Quote :

Correction....Indians have to believe that a peaceful self determination of the people is the only way forward. The peace process starts from there. The recent protest demonstration by Kashmiris were peaceful, and India resorted by killing unarmed protestors. Therefore, it is infact the Indians who need a lesson or two on the merits of peaceful negotiations, rather than military brute force.

Freedom is a Kashmiri goal and for that they have to believe in Peace as a path for freedom. Killing unarmed protestors is always detestable and I have condemned it strongly before in this forum even sending an e-mail to CRPF expressing my outrage (knowing fully well it won't be acknowledged). See point (1) of my four suggestions in this regard.
Back to top Go down
Reporter
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Posts : 55
Join date : 2008-08-25

PostSubject: Re: Selling our sovereignty to the "Impoverished" Indians   Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:42 am

LiberalM wrote:

The United States is a prime example. It had wars with its neighbours (The US-Mexican war that caused first the separation and later the 'occupation' of California). The US occupies distant foreign lands in a ruthless and ceaseless pursuit of its strategic imperatives. No one can deny that the US is a democracy. A western liberal democracy at that.

A predictable answer LiberalM. You are very quick to point at US and justify India's actions by using the argument that "if they can do it so it must be the norm for democracies to act like that". But mentioning the 160 year old US-Mexican war that resulted in California or Texas to become part of the US is not a good argument as democracies around the world were in their infancies at the time, and the world had yet to see the two world wars and the birth of modern democracies, or that of UN after the second world war. Therefore, if we were to compare India's actions with other democracies in the world; its actions are quite primitive, imperialistic, and unjustifiable. You cannot justify these actions simply by claiming that "...Just because a country is a democracy does not mean it will act incongruently with its own strategic security". You cannot wash away India's brute tactics by justifying them as a necessity to protect your strategic interests. I would not have a problem with your argument, if you acknowledged India's colonial tendencies. But committing these acts, and then hiding behind the garb of democracy is unjustifiable.

I will not try to debate the actions of US as half the internet is rife with whether their actions are democratic in nature or just another wannabe imperialistic power. So if you think US actions are democratic, then those are your views and there is nothing I can do about it.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Selling our sovereignty to the "Impoverished" Indians   

Back to top Go down
 
Selling our sovereignty to the "Impoverished" Indians
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 3 of 5Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Castle Craig Death was "Avoidable"
» "Drop Your Disabled Kids At a Shelter" Indiana Parents Are Told
» Businessman who helped expose Nursery paedo ring has "no regrets"
» GREECE MAY HAVE IT"S CREDIT RATING TO JUNK FROM BBB-
» "The Little Coat" by Alan Buick

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Kashmir Forum :: Kashmir forum main. :: All issues relating to Kashmir. [NO REGISTRATION IS REQUIRED. YOU MAY POST ANONYMOUSLY]-
Jump to: