HomeSearchRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Jagmohan made the Kashmiri Pandits leave Kashmir

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2, 3  Next
AuthorMessage
Qazi
Guest



PostSubject: Jagmohan made the Kashmiri Pandits leave Kashmir   Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:59 am

It is a myth that muslims made the Pandits leave Kashmir. I have proof. I was their neighbours and we told them that we will keep them safe. But still they left.
Back to top Go down
Suchi
Guest



PostSubject: Jagmohan, Pandits and Kashmir   Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:49 am

I appreciate your views, and you are entitled to have ur own views, but

A couple of days back, the reverred home minister of India, Shivraj Patil, declared at a press conference that there is no economic blockade to the valley, and that the govt will buy out the produce of the fruit growers, there is no need for a muzaffarabad march, DID YOU BELIEVE HIM !!!!

that s the difference between words and action, i m sure you had some great affinity with the neighbors, but surely they did not belive u, and surely these must be something that made them not believe you.....try to fathom what that was

coming down to facts, even before jagmohan was the governer, there were hindu pandits butchered in the valley, in the smaller towns and villages, with their bodies hung to the trees, instructing the others to leave, convert or die.....if you want i could let you know the names of the villages and the dates....true that happened in remote areas, but the word spreads and that is why all pundits left in a week's time, when jagmohan was there....its about believing....did the kashmiris not believe that "outsiders" " settled" in 100 acres of land would make them a minority in their own land .....

I do not doubt that you wanted ur neighbors to stay, but there's a difference between saying and doing.....delhi had the worst sikh riots in 84, and hindus did save sikhs, case in point my own locality, we told the sikhs we ll look after them, we did, and they trusted us.....TRUST is the key dear friend, trust, not just words!!
Back to top Go down
Firdaus
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Jagmohan made the Kashmiri Pandits leave Kashmir   Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:44 pm

Suchi, the total Pandit deaths in Kashmir during militancy in the 90's would not exceed 200 sad and tragic deaths. At about the same time Kashmiri muslims were being targeted as well. Muslims who were members of political parties such as NC. My point is that there was not an "ethnic cleansing" mentality in Kashmir at the time. People regardless of their religious afiliation were being targeted by militants for suspicion of working with the Indian army.

Jagmohan took advantage of this because he was a rabid kashmiri muslim hater and wanted to justify his reign of terror in kashmir, and he got his wish by encouraging pandits to leave kashmir which he eventually blamed on muslims.

I too did not witness muslims dictating pandits to leave kashmir or convert to islam from mosque loudspeakers. people can make up some lies !
Back to top Go down
Suchi
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Jagmohan made the Kashmiri Pandits leave Kashmir   Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:29 pm

Quote :
Suchi, the total Pandit deaths in Kashmir during militancy in the 90's would not exceed 200 sad and tragic deaths. At about the same time Kashmiri muslims were being targeted as well. Muslims who were members of political parties such as NC. My point is that there was not an "ethnic cleansing" mentality in Kashmir at the time. People regardless of their religious afiliation were being targeted by militants for suspicion of working with the Indian army.

I am not talking about militancy deaths, I am talking of the time even before militancy became the order of day, there were no loudspeakers, but there were pamphlets, The grandmother of one of my very close pundit friends has actually saved the stones and hand written threats that were thrown into their houses at the dead of the night, extolling her to leave- facts are always right, we may choose to ignore them at convenience, Pandit deaths were way more than 200, i don't have the counts, no one does,but if i only look at the major massacres that would go beyond 500, and those are the ones i remember. Not to say muslims have also been killed by the herd, but that is exactly what my point is, a bullet does not see religion....it pierces the bodies.

Quote :
Jagmohan took advantage of this because he was a rabid kashmiri muslim hater and wanted to justify his reign of terror in kashmir, and he got his wish by encouraging pandits to leave kashmir which he eventually blamed on muslims.
Jagmohan was only a person playing by the rules, nothing more nothing less......in the capital of india, he flattened 1000 slums in the heart of delhi, and gave them plots of lands 20 km away, no mercy shown here, he did the same in the valley, he tried to restore order among militancy, he tried to break away the processions every day, he did not favour anyone, neither here in delhi, nor in kashmir......breaking rule 144 is illegal, and so he fired.....there was little army then, there was little army from 1948 to 1989, only J&K police, mostly muslim, why did the valley erupt then, or are you trying to say that valley muslims turned violent on the sight of jagmohan, he may be demonised because he oversaw the crushing of 1989 processions, i don't like him either but he was what he was- a stickler to rules.
Quote :

I too did not witness muslims dictating pandits to leave kashmir or convert to islam from mosque loudspeakers. people can make up some lies !
While in 1988-89 there were "lies" saying the water in jhelum and municipal supply was poisoned and the pundits were vacated to save them from killing, there was this fear that indian government was trying to kill all kashmiris, even that was never dictated from the mosque loudspeakers, yet the lies spread like wild fire.....
Socho yaar, hum ek doosre par bharosa nahi kar ke kahan jayenge....
INdia mein har rule break hua hai, except one.....i still can not buy a piece of land in J&K, just think what pakistan has done to northern areas with 28000 afgan families settled there, what china has done to tibet by making tibetans a minority to han settlers, India has respected article 370 to the hilt, kashmiris still own kashmir, think about that!!!
Back to top Go down
kashmiri
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Jagmohan made the Kashmiri Pandits leave Kashmir   Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:05 am

Quote :
suchi wrote: I am not talking about militancy deaths, I am talking of the time even before militancy became the order of day, there were no loudspeakers, but there were pamphlets, The grandmother of one of my very close pundit friends has actually saved the stones and hand written threats that were thrown into their houses at the dead of the night, extolling her to leave- facts are always right, we may choose to ignore them at convenience, Pandit deaths were way more than 200, i don't have the counts, no one does,but if i only look at the major massacres that would go beyond 500, and those are the ones i remember

Suchi this is an absolute figment of imagination to claim that pandits were targeted before the start of militancy by muslims. Can you provide even a single unbiased source to back your claim? I will accept your argument if you are able to provide even a single 'unbiased' source that we can access from here on the internet. unbiased means that it has to be reliable and not the propaganda mouthpiece of some hindu fanatic website or party.
Back to top Go down
M Shah
Guest



PostSubject: Pandits   Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:23 pm

Why would Jagmohan want Hindus to leave?? You're statements are the lies. The Hindu Pandits were forced to leave the Valley in the 1990's during the height of the Islamic militancy. Islamic extremists forced them to leave.

Even if you don't agree with the cause, what are the Muslims in the Valley doing now to allow the Pandits to return to their homes and feel same?

Again, why don't the Kashmiri Muslims ever bring up the change in demegraphics caused by the forced removal of the Hindu Pandits (whatever the cause)?

When will the Hindu Pandits be able to safely return to their homes?

And a related question - how do you think the Hindus in Pakistan are treated? They are treated much worse than any Muslim in India! but Muslims never bring up how badly they mistreat non-Muslims in their countries.
Back to top Go down
Koshur
Full Member
Full Member
avatar

Posts : 18
Join date : 2008-08-14

PostSubject: Re: Jagmohan made the Kashmiri Pandits leave Kashmir   Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:46 am

Suchi I believe Mr Kashmiri has a point. I beleive providing a reliable source for your claim would be in order Very Happy



M Shah wrote:
Even if you don't agree with the cause, what are the Muslims in the Valley doing now to allow the Pandits to return to their homes and feel same?
Mr Shah as far as I know every single party including the mainstream as well as separatist parties have been repeatedly stating that they support the return of the Pandits. As they say, you can take a horse to the river, but you cannot force it to drink water. I will flip the argument the other way. Name one single party, mainstream or separatist which is agaisnt the return of the Pandits. The answer is none. All you pandits have to do is pack up your bags and return.

M Shah wrote:
Again, why don't the Kashmiri Muslims ever bring up the change in demegraphics caused by the forced removal of the Hindu Pandits (whatever the cause)?
There never was a change in the demographics of the state. Pandits will eventually return to the state. They continue to be state subjects.

M Shah wrote:
When will the Hindu Pandits be able to safely return to their homes?
Tomorrow if you choose to Smile

M Shah wrote:
And a related question - how do you think the Hindus in Pakistan are treated? They are treated much worse than any Muslim in India! but Muslims never bring up how badly they mistreat non-Muslims in their countries.

Would you care to provide a single reliable source to back your claim such as a link to a story or news site? hearsay and rumours can be very dangerous. I can howeverr again flip the argument and claim that muslims are treated very badly in India. Need I to bring up Gujrat or Ayodhya? (not to mention the attrocities by the indian army in Kashmir)
Back to top Go down
Suchi
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Jagmohan made the Kashmiri Pandits leave Kashmir   Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:03 pm

Unbiased view!!!! indeed....
As far as i know, there were only two sides of the story....one from ur viewpoint- the valley muslims, and the other from the Pundits......I have talked to many people on either side of the story, and then i wrote what i wrote,

Would love to know whom you would consider unbiased......and would love to know the truth, you did not answer Kashmiri's response to our home minister(sic)'s response though.....if only words meant what they speak, world would be a different place today.....
Back to top Go down
Farhan
Guest



PostSubject: What happen to Sikh Community!   Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:02 pm

I wonder why Sikh community didn’t left valley & don’t tell me no Sikh has been killed in past 2 decades, we all know Chatisingh-Pora and post Chatisingh post massacre.

Neither they are from our religion nor do we have any truce with Punjab.

Although I heard they are also hampering traffic & supporting blockade at some places along the highway!

I am sure if Muslims Kashmiris have forced non-Muslim Kashmiris for conversion early 90s was ripe time & was a matter of 1 press release, militancy was at it strength & nothing was impossible.

Look at a write-up from Pandit brother

Greaterkashmir (14/08/2008)

I’m a Kashmiri Pandit, I love my Kashmiri Muslim brothers

Dear Editor
Present circumstances have forced me to clarify certain misunderstandings about my community. Kashmiri Pandit (KP) is a peace loving and law abiding person who is more interested in the welfare of his family, education of his kids and least concerned about politics. It is by compulsion he is asked to join some political rallies. We are victims of politics and every party has used us for their own hidden agenda. One particular party collected millions of dollars in our name all over world and distributed plastic buckets to our people living in Camps only for media coverage. We do not want to be labeled as communal because our friends are Muslims, our closest ties are with Muslims and we welcome them in our homes even today as we know we are from one race, one place and one ethnicity.
Some people give statements on our behalf and we get a reputation which we do not belong to. Recently one gentleman talked all nonsense on T.V. using all vulgar language which is not in our nature or blood. How can we be represented by insane people like Mr. XYZ? K.P. has no leader and everybody wants to come in lime light for personal gains.
I belong to a community of pseudo-intellectuals who are able to lecture on everything in the world, who can dethrone everyone in Coffee house discussions and can issue “Bata Gazette” while sitting in the four walls of their A.C. rooms. Every K.P. is a born leader. He hardly realizes the repercussions of his irresponsible statements. He is safe in Delhi, Bombay or Chennai but what about others who get misnomer due to his utterances. Let me make it clear to all Muslim brothers and sisters that:
- We have all love & respect for you people because you are our own people. Our culture, our history, our traditions, our tastes, our language is same. Outside Kashmir wherever we meet fellow Kashmiri Muslim we bring him to our place, prepare sheer chai with best ‘Malai’ on top – Why? Is he our relative – No! So why we cook Kashmiri dishes and eat together – Why? Is it appeasement – No! It is love for motherland, we get psychological satisfaction.
We do not want anybody to give statements on our behalf. Please leave us alone. Amaranth is here since many centuries so why make it a political issue. It was Mr. Malik who discovered it and we have been paying our respects to lord Shiva jointly. This Yatra is a source of income to people living in and around Pahalgam – Why snatch their bread. Let Yatra be managed by people of J & K State only without outside interference. Yatra should commence only after ‘Chadi Mubarak’ leads the procession as was our tradition in the past. Why change the tradition. If required it may be allowed for another 15 days i.e. for one month only. It is religious Yatra do not make it Picnic. No artificial snow should be used and no stone shivling should be allowed to be installed there. It will hurt our sentiments. Huge traffic has already destroyed the glacier which is the primary source of water for Lidder Valley.
- Please restrict the number of Yatri’s for the sake of nature and ecology. We are not against any community; let us co-exist for the betterment of our people. Regionalism is not the Solution. We live in a global village where we can not live in isolation. We are interdependent so separation is not the Solution.
Europe is United, Berlin wall has fallen, world is coming closer; by another fifty years there will be no boundaries between nations. Unite people for the sake of future generation. Stop hate Campaigns, live and let people live in peace. Every community has 2% hard liners let 98% show their strength.
May God bring Peace and Prosperity to my beloved Kashmir. Tathastoo! Ameen!
Vikram Dhar
Andheri West, Mumbai.
Working with Microsoft
----------
farhan
Back to top Go down
peace
Leading Member
Leading Member
avatar

Posts : 132
Join date : 2008-08-17

PostSubject: dear suchi   Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:13 am

i am not against what all u wrote and i think now the discussion here is becoming an argument..
....there might have been a propaganda even before 1989 for the pandits to leave..the stone throwing incident in the middle of the night might also be true and i am not asking u to send me a link to prove it...but couldnt that have been an isolated incident...a family tussle...it could have been anything...as for jagmohan is concerned every learned person who has read about the facts on ground in early 90's knows the plans of jagmohan or new delhi..now here i would like to highlight something which nobody has..do u know how many kashmiri pandits had been working as RAW agents at the time of uprising and before that..at the begining it were these RAW agents or even IB agents who were targeted..one more thing that one should understand here is that whenever there is a public uprising two things are affected first..one is the state admistration and the second is the elite or exploiting class of the society..in french revolution it was the elite class which was targetted..we all know about the bread and te cake story in that revolution..pandits had always been the exploiting class of this muslim dominated state right from since sikhs captured the state in 1819..i dnt believe and will never that pandits and muslims had lived like brothers in the state..kashmiri muslim was always exploited by his pandit neighbour..its not my own story or my imagination...its recorded history..if u want to know about it the best possible book that i can refer to anyone is "struggle for freedom in kashmir" which has been written by prem nath bazaz who happens to be a kashmiri pandit..the problem today is that we discuss the present crisis without any knowledge about the past..its very important to know the root causes of the present crisis..nobody wants voilence but what can u do when it is thrust upon u..how many pro-indian voices know about the events that lead to the mass uprising in 1989..what would u do when ITB force would shoot on students protesting in the university against the university adminstration..how would u explain the beating of all those except the pro-indian parties who stood up in the elections in 1984..they were brutally thrashed by the authorities after the elections because they dared to stand up in the elections..
...things have to be seen through open eyes and through neutral thought..if one is biased or too patriotic then i dnt think one can judge properly..the problem with indian people is that thet think india cnt do anything wrong..i agree with them but when in india u have people like praveen tagodia parties like BJP,SHIV SENA,RSS who can dismantle a mosque in broad day light then there are chances of tings going wrong...
regards to everyone
Back to top Go down
peace
Leading Member
Leading Member
avatar

Posts : 132
Join date : 2008-08-17

PostSubject: from KASHMIR ADMINSTRATIVE SERVICE TO JAMMU ADMINSTRATIVE SERVICE   Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:42 pm

ALEE ANDRABI


Srinagar, Aug 19: According to a computation made by the General Administration Department (GAD) in 2005, for submission to the Sachar Committee, the state had roughly 3,52,000 employees. The Department worked out the percentage of employees to the total strength of respective communities. Hindu employees represent 4.61 percent of the 30 lakh Hindu population in the state whereas Muslims have a representation of 2.85 percent for the 68 lakh Muslim population. So relative to the respective populations, Hindus outnumber Muslims in the State government. This should question the ‘assertions’ of discrimination effusing from the winter capital. Ridicule them. Deflate them.
Scanning the composition of the State administration, the claims of discrimination do come home, indeed. The irony, though, is that the victim of this discrimination is not the ‘Pro National’ Jammu wala as we have been made to believe but the ‘Anti National’ Kashmiri, to put in the latest Right wing lingo. One, which is being endorsed by our wannabe Prime Minister L K Advani as well.
Starting with the Indian Administrative Service (IAS), the total cadre strength is 94 with 24 officers belonging to the Kashmir division, 27 officers belonging to the Jammu division and two from Ladakh. The other 41 babus are from outside the state. So where exactly is Jammu getting discriminated in all this? Delusion, but nothing! Further, most of the core developmental departments like Planning, Finance, R&B, PHE and Irrigation are headed by non-Kashmiris. Even the all important departments of Agriculture, Revenue, Social Welfare, Health, Home, CAPD, Industries and Commerce, Information, PDD are ‘endowed’ to non-Kashmiris. The trend is the same for Science and Technology, Transport and Culture. No Kashmiri components!
Another ‘discriminating’ fact, for the record. Since 1947, out of 26 Chief Secretaries of the State, only 6 have been Kashmiri Muslims. How’s that for discrimination for the only Muslim majority state of ‘secular’ India. But no one has ever stood up for this. Makes sense, in a way. Why would a Kashmiri Muslim civil servant take the ‘risk’ of speaking against discrimination engineered by a minority and be branded as ‘anti national’. Not worth it! Never was.
Now comes the real shocker. The Kashmir Administrative Service (KAS). This is where scores have to be settled, intriguing serious questions have to be asked, discrimination has to be debated and alienation of Kashmiri Muslims has to be addressed. Out of the 338 KAS cadre officers in the state, 155 officers belong to Kashmir division, 151 to Jammu division and 22 to Ladakh division. 10 officers are from junior KAS. Now how can this representation be fair, even ethical? This is unfair by any account of economic management or population distribution. The ratio is 55:45 in favor of Muslims but why has everything been worked out and settled at 50:50? It is not supposed to be that way. Kashmir outnumbers others in terms of population, but why is that they are outnumbered when it comes to Administration, Judiciary, Police and even Private enterprise? This preposterous idea of 50:50 distribution is absolutely fake, senseless by all parameters. Save your disappointment, resentment and protests for now though. Save them for the ‘administrative genocide’ I am about to illustrate.
From 2001 till date, 478 KAS appointments have been made. Kashmiris are at 106, Ladakh at 12 and Jammu at a staggering overpowering figure of 360. Discrimination? No, not by any standards. This is something far beyond the term, with devastating consequences for the majority. As I said ‘administrative genocide’, if you like. Engineering, competent and successful, has been done for the next three decades and things (read Kashmiris) have been leveled out for the ‘pro National’ Jammu bureaucrats. In fact it would not even make sense to call it KAS five years down the line. It will be, rather already can be, rechristened as Jammu Administrative Service (JAS). And here in Kashmir, we would even have to import BDOs and Tehsildars!
And mind you, Kashmiris are not overpowered in bureaucracy alone. It’s all across. Take for example the 641 Muslims and the 1015 Hindus figuring in the tentative seniority list of 1656 Junior Agriculture Assistants as of April 2006. Or for that matter the 114 Muslim AEEs in Works Department against the 164 Hindu AEEs as of May 2005. And be assured, it only gets worse after that.
The latest recruitments don’t show any mercy to Muslims or Kashmiris. Amongst the 429 Accounts Assistants selected by the Service Selection Board in April 2008, Jammu accounts for 334 Assistants while Kashmir gets a ‘fabulous’ 95. I am not even going to comment on that.
Of course, Raj Bhawan, the custodian of the constitutional rights of all sections of society remains off limits for at least one community, no prizes. The last Muslim Secretary the First Citizen of the state had was when we used to have a Sadr i Riyasat. Since then it is graciously adorned by the malis of Floriculture Department who are considered indispensable for their manicuring skills and presenting a gulab every morning to the sahib of the estate. However with the arrival of the present Governor two middle level Muslim officers from the former Chief Minister’s office are now manning the secretariat outpost of Raj Bhavan.
To conclude, all this is in complete sync with the latest branding of Kashmiris. Anti Nationals, at the end of the day you see.
PS: Yesterday’s piece on judiciary reflected only the current composition affected by deputation and transfers. The actual composition of the J&K High Court Bench gives Kashmir 6 slots and Jammu 6. Of these two from Jammu, Justice V K Gupta and Justice T S Thakur are already Chief Justices posted on deputation. Justice Bilal Nazki from Kashmir is a judge on deputation to the Bombay High Court.
The State Hugh Court has so far sent 3 judges to the Supreme Court, one of whom, Justice Anand, served as Chief Justice of India. The other two were justice Raja Jaswant Singh and Justice R P Sethi. You know their home addresses.
Back to top Go down
Anon
Guest



PostSubject: @peace   Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:41 am

Well, considering your post seemingly directed to kashmiri pandits, let me ask you a few questions on their behalf when you sell them the idea that an independant kashmir would be best for them:

1. What happened to all virtues of human understanding on the part of your community when [Offending statement deleted for lack of reliable sources to back up claim]. Where were you all then? Where was your great spirit that turns now at every incident of human rights violation? Does any of your blogs or sites EVEN AS MUCH AS a reference to this great human tragedy? No sir, you dont, and that busts your credibility as far as religious intolerance and 'human virtuosity' goes. Thats why I say, DONT SERMONIZE. You want to go ahead with your delusion, its ok, I have nothing against that, but don't pose to be a fountainhead of virtuosity because you're society is far from it. Same for some hindus who will not wait a second to show their communal colors. Its the genepool that brings out communal hatred that is common to all in the country, of which you too are a part... so please keep your sermons to yourself.

2. Where now do you wish to 'place ' kashmiri pandits, whom you would like to join you in your quest for freedom? [Offending statement deleted for lack of reliable sources to back up claim]. Are you going to rebuild their houses and temples? Are you going to give them back their sense of security? Are you going to bring back and redeem more than a decade of life spent in migrant camps? Are you going to asure that their home and hearth will be safeguarded [Offending statement deleted for lack of reliable sources to back up claim]. ...or will you just turn your eyes to the screams of your hindu 'brothers' ...once again when that happens?

You will have to realise one day for sure that kashmiri hindus have a nation already, and that is called India. India with a mixture of religions. Multi ethnic and a multi religious society. Indians tempramentally don't sit on a fence and try to see which side is greener. Indians, wherver they are dont tend to mix loyalties. They would rather live and die with the nation than think of separating from it. Maybe you folks can't understand this feeling maybe because you never in your hearts had the same feeling about your nationality. I accept that. No one can give sermons to aother in todays world. So when you talk about burnt bridges, I would say that you know that already and were just attempting to be politically correct Smile Nice posturing.

Any ways , thanks for the invitation!

regards
Back to top Go down
Reporter
Veteran Member
Veteran Member


Posts : 55
Join date : 2008-08-25

PostSubject: Re: Jagmohan made the Kashmiri Pandits leave Kashmir   Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:50 am

Quote :
...[Offending statement deleted for lack of reliable sources to back up claim]. .


Anon.
I will not allow this forum to be a medium for you to spread your lies and Hindutva propaganda.
I am asking you to provide satisfactory sources to back each one of the above claims within 12 hours. Failing which I ask for a vote to have Anon's post deleted along with this warning.

This is also a warning to you that making accusatory marks against Kashmiri muslims without having sufficient sources to back up those lies will not be tolerated on this forum.

Admin and myself have decided to impose the "three strikes rule". Consider this to be your first warning.


Last edited by Reporter on Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:59 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Anon
Guest



PostSubject: @Reporter Admin   Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:03 am

Since you will delete my post anyways, I dont mind you doing that. But at least you will read my reply before deleting this too, but thats about all I want. Reporter and Admin, maybe this is my last post on your forum, but that too does not matter. What matters is, that to know the truth you dont have to shut your eyes and ears. Unless ofcourse you dont want anything against against kashmiris to be written in your forum. As far as the requirement of proof that is expected of me goes, I might as well tell you that I was EYEWITMESS to it all. And I find it a wast of time to paste references from people who perhaps never were in the Valley then. Unfortunately, my sources of information, which indeed is documented, can not be put up in any forum. Not that I cant collect it from the net as there are a million references to it. Its like asking proof that Godra or Gujarat happened! Its just that I feel that this forum is more about your personal agendas, than about accepting different viewpoints... seems that you dont have the courage to accept where your people went wrong. And that makes this forum a hell of a suffocating place to give ones time to.
But please carry on , and dont worry about giving me 'strikes'. I have had enough of this already
Back to top Go down
LiberalM
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Jagmohan made the Kashmiri Pandits leave Kashmir   Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:49 am

@reporter, @admin
Quote :
reporter wrote:
Anon.
I will not allow this forum to be a medium for you to spread your lies and Hindutva propaganda.
I am asking you to provide satisfactory sources to back each one of the above claims within 12 hours. Failing which I ask for a vote to have Anon's post deleted along with this warning.

This is also a warning to you that making accusatory marks against Kashmiri muslims without having sufficient sources to back up those lies will not be tolerated on this forum.

Admin and myself have decided to impose the "three strikes rule". Consider this to be your first warning.
I don't think this is very nice at all.

I didn't honestly see anything like what you accuse anon of here. His/her post seems to followed the six responsibilities for posters mentioned on 'Forum Rules'. He doesn't seem to be following any "hinduvta" agenda. Here is why I think so:

Quote :
anon wrote:
Same for some hindus who will not wait a second to show their communal colors. Its the genepool that brings out communal hatred that is common to all in the country, of which you too are a part...

We need to hear all voices from everywhere. If everyone starts asking for links to support everything one says, then this won't be a forum for exchanging ideas and opinions but a forum for exchanging pre-approved website links. That will be a very sterile environment to have any meaninful debate.

This is your forum. You have a right to run it the way you want and give it any colour or bias you want. So far I have seen it run in a fair and even-handed manner which is admirable but today I was disappointed to see such a threat. I hope these types of threats are not handed out for all posts with opposing viewpoints. It will leave the forum quite a bit poorer in all respects.
Back to top Go down
peace
Leading Member
Leading Member
avatar

Posts : 132
Join date : 2008-08-17

PostSubject: Re: Jagmohan made the Kashmiri Pandits leave Kashmir   Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:28 pm

first of all i will request the adminstrator and all the moderators to allow everyone to write there thoughts freely in limits of the forum rules...
@anon...
dude i have the answers...
the answer to your first point is very simple...for the pandit community history is repeating itself..from 1819 till 1947 kashmiri pandits literally ruled over kashmiri muslims..in 1819 when ranjit singh invaded and occupied kashmir on the request of several kashmiri pandits,what was the first thing that the same pandit community did..through there high offices in ranjit singh's darbar they put a ban on azaan(calling for prayers) and the one convicted was beheaded..they shut down the mosques all over kashmir and muslims were not allowed to offer prayers in the mosques..the biggest mosque(jama masjid) was shut and pather masjid(mughal construction) was turned into first a stable and then granary..tax was levied upon kashmiri muslims on almost everything..3/4th of the rice produce was taken by the authorities and tax collectors were the same pandit community...all the peasents were kashmiri muslims and were heavily taxed..this forced the muslim population to migrate towards the plains of punjab in large numbers and some of them who did return were stunned to see there land being occupied by there pandit brothers...the population during the sikh rule was reduced from 8 lacs to just 2 lacs..that was the scale of the execution of the muslims and most importantly the migration of the muslim community..what about those muslims anon..obviously that is none of ur business.it is recent history brother..it would be unethical and immoral for anyone of accusing me to go into the history and writing the events almost 150 years old but remember one thing that the events of 90's will also be at a time hundred years old and it would be illogical for anyone to discuss the present situation without discussing the reasons and events of the past and more illogical for those who write about the present events without knowing the history..as it has become a rule of the forum to ask for sources and refrences and i have number of refrences to quote for whatever i wrote above and anyone is welcome to ask for them...i am not justifying the migration of the pandit community from the valley but i am trying to highlight the history about the former ruling and elite class of kashmiri society,i.e the pandit community and the reasons for there mass migration..kashmir witnessed a mass revolution in 90's and the first three things that are hit in a revoultion are the adminstration,the intelligence and the ruling or elite class...pandit community for me filled up the last two categories..
people here write things which they either are not aware of or write what they have heard or read without any authentic proof..i agree kashmiri pandits were killed and nobody can deny that..the sources put the figures on around 300...and u might as well check how many women were raped...?????even if i agree with u that pandit women were raped then the counter argument would be that muslim women have been raped far greater in number by the army..so pls stop the blame game..my only point in highlighting the demand by panun kashmir was the danger of kashmir turning into another palestain like issue which is the last thing that anyone would want...what will anyone achieve from that idea..maybe more killings similar as in israel-palestain conflict..
your second point which reads like....
Quote :
Where now do you wish to 'place ' kashmiri pandits, whom you would like to join you in your quest for freedom? Youve burnt their houses, raized most of their temples to the ground, have done every thing to obliterate their existance from the face of kashmir valley. Are you going to rebuild their houses and temples? Are you going to give them back their sense of security? Are you going to bring back and redeem more than a decade of life spent in migrant camps? Are you going to asure that their home and hearth will be safeguarded against the threat of Islamic Jehad...or will you just turn your eyes to the screams of your hindu 'brothers' ...once again when that happens?
...
i do not agree that kashmiri pandits at present are a part of kashmiri muslims freedom struggle.however i will love to see kashmiri society as a whole shoulder to shoulder against the atrocities..but that is only a lose-lose situation for the pandits...i would request u to write the truth here pls..i agree pandits were killed,i do not want to but for the sake of argument i will agree that pandit women were raped but it is just the distortion of the facts when u write about destroying most of the temples here..i will like to inform u that till date not even a single report or news has come of destruction of any temple in kashmir..u might check that with dharmarth trust founded by dogra ruler ranbir singh and which till date maintains all the temples in the state..the only problem they are facing is the lack of pandit priests who are different from an average indian priest...and which sense of security are u talking about..not even a single muslim in kashmir has that same sense of security..y cnt pandits share the same insecurity with there muslim brothers???
Back to top Go down
LiberalM
Guest



PostSubject: Re: KASHMIR: ANOTHER PALESTINE by Reshmi Sehgal   Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:45 am

@Reporter, @admin:

Quote :
Reporter wrote:
Anon's offending statements were deleted for lack of reliable sources to back them up.

The rules of this forum are plain and simple. Hindutva agents are hell bent on re-inventing the truth, and the fact of the matter is that not a single Kashmiri Pandit was threatened to leave their homes.

It is quite unfortunate that you felt compelled to delete the statements that offended you instead of simply countering them.

This would have been an ideal occasion to let the post stay intact to showcase the tolerant ethos of Kashmiriyat.

I do certainly hope that an independent Kashmir of the future would tolerate voices of dissent.
Back to top Go down
Jehangir
Full Member
Full Member


Posts : 14
Join date : 2008-09-16

PostSubject: Discourse   Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:25 pm

@ Chinaar.
I also feel the same about Hated-in. It is always essential to understand ur weak points which can be elucidated only by someone on the other side of the fence. WISH HE WOULD MAKE HIS ARGUMENTS IN A SLIGHTLY MORE TOLERANT METHOD
Back to top Go down
LiberalM
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Discourse   Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:58 am

@Jehangir,
Quote :
Jehangir wrote:
I also feel the same about Hated-in. It is always essential to understand ur weak points which can be elucidated only by someone on the other side of the fence. WISH HE WOULD MAKE HIS ARGUMENTS IN A SLIGHTLY MORE TOLERANT METHOD

This forum's earlier rules were simple: "No obscenity allowed". Now the new rules and policies posted under "Forum rules" are quite different. It appears now that the forum has a bias or an agenda. Anyone who doesn't agree with that agenda will be allowed to post for a while but then he/she will probably be branded as a "Hinduvta Agent" or "An agent of the Indian Intelligence" or some other synonym for an "Enemy" and hounded out of this forum by using "three strikes rule" or some other means. It is quite unfortunate but that is a right of the owners of this forum and I will not dispute that right. What that does to this forum is for all you good Kashmiris to decide.

I am sorry, I thought until last week this was a good place to convince someone and to get convinced or to agree to disagree. But now it appears it is a place where one is welcome only to get convinced or to get laughed at. I will check this forum from time to time but I don't intend to participate in the forum until it goes back to its original simple "No Obscenity Allowed" version.

I thank all everyone here for giving me a patient ear.
Back to top Go down
kilo
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Jagmohan made the Kashmiri Pandits leave Kashmir   Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:53 am

I disagree with Liberal M. The rules of this forum are fair and and not at all discriminatory. Asking a poster to cite sources is necesssary to keep the debate focussed and a reliable source of information for readers of this forum. Otherwise anyone having the time and a hidden agenda could hijack this forum.

thankyou moderators for a good job.
Back to top Go down
LiberalM
Guest



PostSubject: Re: KASHMIR: ANOTHER PALESTINE by Reshmi Sehgal   Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:18 pm

@kilo:
Quote :
I disagree with Liberal M. The rules of this forum are fair and and not at all discriminatory. Asking a poster to cite sources is necesssary to keep the debate focussed and a reliable source of information for readers of this forum. Otherwise anyone having the time and a hidden agenda could hijack this forum.

thankyou moderators for a good job.
Debate can be kept focussed if everyone learns to see other's point of view and learns to ignore the melodrama, the cliche's, the exaggerations that are used to make a point. Most posters are adults who can sift through what is posted and have the ability to separate fact from fiction and to ignore the fictional part. On other occasions, original thoughts, opinions, feelings, and experiences can have no website references anywhere because they are original thoughts, opinions, feelings, and experiences.

I had faith in the fairness of this forum until last week. However, a couple of incidents this past few days, have made me question that (see couple of my post earlier). I am just a Guest on this forum from far-off Maharashtra and I could have just walked away from this forum. But I thought I owed it to you all to let you know how I feel - that's all. I have nothing against the moderators or anyone here and I don't look at any of you as my enemies. I wish you all well in life.

Thank you all.
Back to top Go down
peace
Leading Member
Leading Member
avatar

Posts : 132
Join date : 2008-08-17

PostSubject: need for healthy debate   Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:50 pm

i think i will agree with liberalM...i believe the forum will have to be more liberal in terms of allowing the members to express there views and opinions..unless and untill we dnt have a debate how can we,people suffering here in kashmir convey our views and opinions and display our sufferings to the people of india...the propaganda by some here against kashmiris will have no ground...propagandas cannot defy truth at any cost..the whole picture is infront of everyone here interms of videos,newspaper stories,etc,etc....i think the adminstrator needs to take a call here and decide what is best for a better debate on the forum..
Back to top Go down
Admin
Administrator
Administrator


Posts : 75
Join date : 2008-07-28

PostSubject: Re: Jagmohan made the Kashmiri Pandits leave Kashmir   Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:04 am

I have to back Reporter's actions once again as he followed the rules of the forum.

There is no restriction on people voicing their opinion if the comments are presented that way. If however claims are made to make them appear as facts; to be fair to all readers of this forum, it is necessary to cite sources. All this started by reporter deleting Anon's unsubstantiated claims. The claims are so grotesque and offending that it required him to cite sources, which he failed to provide, and hence his posts were deleted: those are the rules of this forum. Those were not his own opinions as posted on his original post, but rather written as though they were undisputed facts; he later recanted and claimed that he was a witness to those incidents, which is infact a lie.

They are lies because had Pandits been subjected to the horrors that Anon claimed, there would have been newspaper reports, or any other records of those events (that infact never happened). Failing to provide any news links that allude to any of those incidents happening itself proves that those claims are lies meant to malign Kashmiri Muslims. We will not allow that to happen on a site that is meant to counter just that.

For instance, if I claim that thousands of Muslims were mercilessly murdered in Gujrat by Hindu fanatics, I can provide hundreds of links of reliable news sources to back up that claim. The subsequent debate that this generates is based on sound foundation based on the sources that I would provide. If on the other hand I have a cavalier attatude to providing sources and just pull facts out of thin air and claim that a million muslims are slaughtered in India every year, people would want me to substantiate my claim by asking me to cite sources. Any debate that follows is pointless as it was not based on sound facts to begin with. That is not the point of this forum; it is meant to counter the falsehood and lies that Hindutva agents are spreading and not to act as a medium for them to propagate their lies.

If you want to post an opinion on this forum, you are most welcomed to do that. Be sure to make that very clear that those are your own opinions. If on the other hand you post something that you claim are facts, then you better know what you are talking about and have solid sources to back that claim.
Back to top Go down
http://kashmir.forumakers.com
peace
Leading Member
Leading Member
avatar

Posts : 132
Join date : 2008-08-17

PostSubject: Re: Jagmohan made the Kashmiri Pandits leave Kashmir   Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:39 am

i would partially agree with what admin wrote..the fact is the total pandits killed are between 250 to 300 as per official figures..anon wrote about raping of pandit women and destroying of temples which he should back with some sources which i believe are none because these incidences never happened..otherwise there would have been some official record..i deeply condemn the killings of pandits but why is there such a hue and cry..muslims have been murdered too and muslim women have been raped in huge numbers..pandits and muslims have suffered both...i will not agree with the some of the people's views that pandits have lost there nationhood...they belonged to a nation known as kashmir..that nation still stands intact..pandits just abondened it when that nation needed support interms of unity and brotherhood..they just betrayed the nation...!!!
Back to top Go down
rprtr
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Jagmohan made the Kashmiri Pandits leave Kashmir   Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:42 am

Quote :
On other occasions, original thoughts, opinions, feelings, and experiences can have no website references anywhere because they are original thoughts, opinions, feelings, and experiences

No one is asking for sources for your original thoughts and feeling. Stop being melodramatic yourself. There are hundreds of posts on this forum and on this thread as well in which Kashmiri muslims have been ridiculed and made fun of - they have not been deleted bacause they are the posters' own opinion.

Anon's post was presented as being fact and hence required citing sources, which he failed to provide. Those are fair rules.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Jagmohan made the Kashmiri Pandits leave Kashmir   

Back to top Go down
 
Jagmohan made the Kashmiri Pandits leave Kashmir
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 3Go to page : 1, 2, 3  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Should the UK leave the EU.....YES or NO
» CL/C made mkIV helmet dated 1945
» Mistakes Were Made
» [Made by me.:X]
» Canadian made M1 helmets?

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Kashmir Forum :: Kashmir forum main. :: All issues relating to Kashmir. [NO REGISTRATION IS REQUIRED. YOU MAY POST ANONYMOUSLY]-
Jump to: