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PostSubject: @anon   Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:23 am

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Your rent and fees. Do you also include those 'Batta' buildings belonging to people who were made to leave your valley?
this is ur post on 30th august replying to guest...i can see who used the word "batta"... Question Question Question
...i must give credit to ur way of mixing up things here...
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You are worried that your Horticulture crops would suffer because indians would retaliate! So its all about money, is it not my friend? Maybe a huge economic package then from India would change your opinion about azadi... as has been happening in the past. And no, I am not arrogant.
after writing such comments u say u are not arrogant..i leave it to everyone here to decide what character u have because it u shows ur character and mindset when u write such lines:
Quote :
Do you have electronic meters installed in the valley? Paying legitimate taxes is a concept unknown in Kashmir. You want every thing free. You want all rights of a civilized world, but refuse to do your duties.
dnt write things beyond ur imagination and the small horizon that u live in...i have already replied to this comment of ur's...which duties are u talking about??
Quote :
Correction. Wherever the forces are stationed, they pay rent. Maybe some cases are under process, but trust you guys will forego your dues?
u think u can write anything here....a person has an orchard land which is his source of bread and money..u take it from him FORCIBLY...and i use the word forcibly becuase in all the cases it has been taken by force rather than through legal procedures...after snatching away his source of income u pay him rent which is far less than the market value...what does he need that rent for..his life is in that land..u owe us not we..
Quote :
because your power generation capabilities are 10%. Thats because you dont know the meaning of hard work. All you think of is easy money in whatever you do.
third time i ask u and i know it will be difficult for u ro answer..yar yeh 10% ka figure tu laya kahan se especially for a region like kashmir..??
...as it seems ur hobby of opening a dictionary and writing meanings in ur posts...teach us the meaning of hard work..what would i explain to a person of ur caliber what forced labour was in kashmir, locally known as beggar system here...u think the language is appropriate here...or is it appropriate from the place u come from..??
......u dnt surprise me at all with the kind of sentences that u use in ur posts and the words...and especially the figures...i just responded to your post where u used the word batta and used the same...otherwise i always use the word kashmiri pandit thats coz i know my culture and especially my limits very well which few people here do not know...even after watching the videos in the this website u do not open ur eyes then we all here need to salute ur patience and patriotism....keep ur frustration levels down,calm down urself and watch the videos with open eyes and mind...and think before u write if u can... Wink
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PostSubject: Fruit growers lose Rs 600 crore due to blockade, curfew   Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:19 am

reply to those who deny any highway/economic blockade...
Quote :
FAHEEM ASLAM


Srinagar, Aug 31: The economic blockade enforced by extremist groups in Jammu has caused a loss of whopping Rs 600 crores to fruit growers in the Valley, a leader of fruit growers committee said.
Bashir Ahmad Bhat, chairman of the Kashmir Coordination Committee, an apex body of the Kashmir Valley Fruit Growers and Dealers, said till August 30 the fruit growers have lost over Rs 600 crore due to economic blockade and stringent curfew imposed by the government.
“Due to the blockade about 65 to 70 percent of the sent outside the state to markets perished in trucks on the highway,” Bhat told Greater Kashmir, adding, “The fruit laden trucks were stranded on the highway for days together.”
Bhat said the rest of the fruit was destroyed because they couldn’t take care of the orchards due to curfew.
Rise in transportation costs due to blockade, as drivers apprehended damages to their vehicles, also added to the losses.
“Last year we would pay Rs 22 to 30 per box of fruit as transport charge from Valley to fruit Mandis, but this year we had to pay Rs 60 to 70,” he added.
Many fruit growers, who spoke to Greater Kashmir, said there was a sharp decrease in the number of trucks that carried fruit to Mandis.
“Had the government controlled the blockade in time, it could have saved us millions of rupees,” said Muhammad Abdullah Magray of Palhalan. He said government is yet to ensure smooth flow of traffic on the highway.
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PostSubject: Re: Muzaffarabad Challo   Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:37 am

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Srinagar, Aug 31: The economic blockade enforced by extremist groups in Jammu has caused a loss of whopping Rs 600 crores to fruit growers in the Valley, a leader of fruit growers committee said.
Bashir Ahmad Bhat, chairman of the Kashmir Coordination Committee, an apex body of the Kashmir Valley Fruit Growers and Dealers, said till August 30 the fruit growers have lost over Rs 600 crore due to economic blockade and stringent curfew imposed by the government.

For 600 crores, they could have built a new road from Srinagar to Pathankot passing through Himachal Pradesh. The question is not whether such a road could have been built, but why it has not yet been built. Obviously no one in either J&K or Delhi has brains. Wasn't this the same road that was shelled by Pakistan during Kargil. Well then, the losses so far are probably 1200 crores or more. For that you could have built a super expressway from Srinagar to all the mandies in the world.
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PostSubject: Re: Muzaffarabad Challo   Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:12 am

no it wasnt the same road..that was NH-1 leading towards ladakh...
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PostSubject: Agreement worse than cabinet order in May: Noorani   Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:43 pm

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KT NEWS SERVICE
JAMMU, Sept 1: Noted legal luminary A G Noorani has maintained that the order of agreement reached between the Jammu and Kashmir government and Amarnath Sangharsh Samiti of Jammu is worse than the cabinet order issued in May.
In response to a query on this agreement, Noorani observed that the May order was issued by a Cabinet, which atleast had a representative character with members both from Kashmir as well as Jammu. "But the latest order was made by the Governor, who is a civil servant. He has only interacted with Jammu parties although the land is in Kashmir and affects people there. There is no reference to Kashmir in this agreement," he pointed out.
Legal luminary stated that while the Cabinet order of May was explicit on return of land after the yatra period. "There is no mention of return of land in this agreement. The Cabinet order also didn't give any exclusive rights. Even during the period of yatra one was allowed to trespass or go through the land and use it for grazing or other purposes without affecting the pilgrimage. But now the land will be shut for anybody for the period of yatra. It violates Article 19 (d) of Indian Constitution which gives right to move freely throughout the territory of India," he averred.
Noorani found the phrase used in the Section C of the Agreement "that aforesaid land shall be used according to the Board's requirements, from time to time," as the most confusing.
"While not mentioning the period of yatra, the phrase "time to time" makes one believe the land can be used anytime. This only vindicates former Chief Executive of the Board Arun Kumar, asserting that land will not be returned," he opined.
Noorani observed that the agreement also talked about compensation to agitators in Jammu yet there also it overlooked Kashmir. "It seems they are being rewarded for agitation. No mention of any punishment for those who engaged in blockades," he expressed surprise.
Noted legal luminary pointed out that while in the first Cabinet order ecological concerns had been taken care of and there was an amount of punishment also mentioned in case of tampering with the ecology and environment. "It has been deleted all the way in this agreement. Section C clause (IX) of the agreement asks the Board to undertake "measures relating to soil conservation, land protection and preservation of ecology." But does not specify the punishment or penalty in case of violation," he added.
Citing yet another example, he averred, "Section 2 of Jammu and Kashmir Forest Conservation Act 1997 clearly stipulates that for any diversion of forest land a resolution has to be adopted at the council of ministers after recommendation from forest advisory committee. Though powers of the state are vested with Governor in Jammu and Kashmir, but the Act is so clear about the power of Council of Minister in this case that it is necessary to follow the process."
"National Forest (Conservation) Act of 1980 also calls for advice from a committee to grant an approval under Section 2. It also stipulates punishment for those violating Section 2 of the Act. Council of ministers also cannot divert the forest land arbitrarily. They have to refer to Supreme Court judgements," Noorani stated.
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PostSubject: @ather   Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:53 am

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third time i ask u and i know it will be difficult for u ro answer..yar yeh 10% ka figure tu laya kahan se especially for a region like kashmir..??

You may like to see here The power production capacity percentage after commissioning of some new projects in doda may come up to 19%. The 10% figure is what is present for the Valley side. Feel free to correct me with proof, if you think I'm writing any thing here. You can als tell me what I can or can not write on this forum, it will save me the trouble of flustering you every now and then Smile

Quote :
after writing such comments u say u are not arrogant..i leave it to everyone here to decide what character u have because it u shows ur character and mindset when u write such lines:

I only want to see your freedom movement not to be held at ransom to temporary fears about your state's economy. You will understand what I mean in a couple of weeks. Just keep your eyes on the political developments of your state. And anyways, the trade routes are going to open up for you very soon. I will discuss with you then.

I am not answering to the rest of your comments, because I dont want to engage you further in a verbal war. You can have the pleasure of my silence on them. Or think that you won, whatever it is that makes you happy.

The point I want to share with you is that dont waste your time and energy in abusing 'the country of India' or its people because thats apparantly not your ultimate object. Your object is freedom. You all are playing your cards wrong. Your posturing is wrong. You tend to forget that it was your ruler who requested accession to India in h backdrom of pakistani raiders, and it was sheihk M abdullah who gave the choice to your people whether to accede to pak or india. You chose to be with India. There was no reaction from your side when India took you under its fold, good or bad, and invested in all kinds of infrastructure, imposed laws with the approval of your government, established its base, reinforced its territorial boundaries, made available central funds, as it were its own cnstituent state, and at the same time DID not attempt to change your cmposite culture and let you all have a special status under ar 370. Indians dont grudge that. Your movement started ostensibly in 1989. I wont go into what started it, as its history, And kashmir started it with violence, killings, assassinations, religious intolerance and what have you. It was a mass movement all right, but soon it turned against kashmir. Defence, Telecommunication and foreign policy. You wanted it, you got it. When army can be used in North east, punjab, down south,... was there any clause that restricted them to operate in kashmir?? No sir. Kashmir's greatest folly is that it allowed and supported armed support from pakistan, including its cadres. Indian had fought many wars with its arch enemy pakistan And the indian army was there just to counter that. Its a pity you got caught up in the middle. The same happened in other places in India whereever such a situation arose, and the results were as harrowing. Every nation in the world has had its share of seccessionism. And they all have been similar in their tackling of such situations. You know that dont you?

You know what I would do if I were in your shoes? I would not castigate India the way you all have a habit of. I would keep my calm, make the general situation such that the services of the indian army is NOT NEEDED, allow india to dole out more projects and set up more utilities for communication and power generation and technology,(you would require them all for your independant kashmir) and try t maintain cordial relations with it, not burn its flag if you can, and in the meanwhile persuade pakistan (brother muslim country and mentor) to de militarise azad kashmir, and parts secceeded to china, as is the mandate of the UN resolutions. This will maybe force india to do the same, and you will then have one Islamic happy valley. Good relations with both your neighbours is a must, so you have to change strategy, be affable my friend, and hope you dont get caught in their wars. You actually dont have any choice other than this.
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PostSubject: @anon   Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:29 pm

brother anon thankyou for ur comments and views which u shared..i feel we have made ourselves very clear on the issue..
regards
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PostSubject: Protesters hounded, beaten   Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:36 pm

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FAHEEM ASLAM


Srinagar, Sep 3: Police, CRPF, and army are hounding, arresting, and beating people who participated in the mass pro-independence rallies in the past one month, people of different parts of the Valley told Greater Kashmir on Wednesday.
In scores of villages in South Kashmir’s Islamabad district lifting of curfew is proving to be a nightmare for people, as Army and police have launched a massive crackdown to punish pro-freedom marchers, the villagers said on Wednesday.
People of Chinnigund, Kanilwan, Chandpora, Teilbal, Gutchpora, Sadkipora and Bandipora villages said the soldiers of local army camps take the village heads as hostage, and ask them to reveal the names of protesters.
“After the curfew was lifted on Tuesday morning, Army is making rounds of the villages twice a day, asking the village heads to name the protesters or else face the consequences,” the villagers of Kanilwan in Bijbehara said. Fearing reprisals the villagers requested their individual names should not be mentioned.
On Wednesday afternoon, a youth from the Kanilwan told Greater Kashmir, “Every morning and evening, the soldiers pick up 10 youths and beat them up ruthlessly in their camps,” he said. “I too was taken to the camp and slapped more than 100 times.”
The beating, he added, is unique that not a single youth receives any wound. “They just slap and kick,” the youth said.
He said the Army soldiers picked up a lecturer of Kashmir University and teachers of the Degree College, residents of Kanilwan, and demanded same information from them.
“The soldiers throw stones at women folk. In Frisal village a woman received three stitches in the head after a soldier threw a stone at her,” the youth said. “We request the media to come to our rescue. There is nobody to listen to us. Our life has become miserable,” he said.
The Army soldiers, according to residents of Frisal, would barge into houses, beat up inmates and detain anyone they wish to. “Army has made our life miserable after the curfew,” the residents told Greater Kashmir by phone.
Army however denies the allegations. “I checked up with the Army officials in these areas. There is nothing like army is picking up people and beating them in the camps,” said the Army’s Srinagar-based spokesman, Col Lt AK Mathur.
He said the Army was not involved in handling the law and order problem. “If any villager is being harassed, he or she must approach the concerned police station and lodge a complaint,” Mathur said.
The Inspector General of Police SM Sahai said the police have not issued any formal orders to arrest the protesters. “We haven’t issued any formal orders in this regard. But wherever the violation of law has taken place, law will definitely take its own course,” he said.
Sopur
Police arrested at least two dozen youths from different villages of Sopur in the past three days on charges of participating in the pro-freedom rallies during last month. Ghulam Muhammad, the Greater Kashmir correspondent from Sopur, said that on September 1 police and CRPF troopers raided several houses in Batpora, Shahabad, and Chinkpora villages and arrested 16 youths.
On Tuesday police and CRPF raided four villages and arrested nine youth. They again raided the villages, this time Khushaalmattoo village too, after night prayers and tried to arrest more youth, but the women and children from scores of Mohallas demonstrated on roads and shouted slogans against police and CRPF troopers, forcing them to retreat.
“Police and CRPF troopers are harassing us for the past few days and asking to reveal names of people who participated in the pro-freedom rallies,” Ghulam Nabi of Shahabad said.
Srinagar
Fearing arrests and beatings in custody several youths have left their homes after police raided various localities in the downtown Srinagar.
The residents of various localities allege that they have been facing severe harassment at the hands of police and CRPF. “Since the day curfew was lifted police has been visiting rounds of our locality and seeking the whereabouts of the youth who took part in protests and processions. They have raided many houses and arrested several youth,” residents of Nowhatta said.
Nocturnal raids were conducted in Rajouri Kadal, Habba Kadal, Batamaloo, Fateh Kadal, Hawal, Lal Bazaar, and many other areas.
“Police arrests youth, tortures them and then asks them to identify the youth who took part in Hurriyat rallies,” said a group of people from Lal Bazaar.
“During curfew days, the troopers barged into our localities, broke window panes of houses and ransacked many residential houses. They also beat many inmates and manhandled elderly persons,” the residents of Batmaloo said.
A senior police official, wishing anonymity, told Greater Kashmir that police was arresting the youth to ensure law and order. “Those who have violated law will be arrested,” he said.
Varmul
Scores of people of Ladoora, among them the shopkeepers of Ladoora Market, Wednesday demonstrated against army, accusing the soldiers of 32 Rashtriya Rifles camp of beating and harassing the people of the area.
The protesters shouted pro-freedom slogans and observed a strike against the intimidation of people who participated in the peaceful pro-independence marches in the past one month.
The Greater Kashmir team yesterday stopped near Ladoora market when it saw an army officer speaking with a group of men squat on the roadside. There were several other soldiers watching over this group of men. The officer came toward the GK team and said, “We are just instructing them to be careful during nights, as Ramazan has started and people offer prayers during dawn and night.” But the detained men told a GK reporter that the officer was abusing them and threatening them of dire consequences if they didn’t identify people who actively participated in the marches.
“Every Kashmiri participated in these protests. How can we name anybody and hand him over to these people knowing fully well they would be tortured,” the detained man said. He gave the GK reporter his cell phone number, whispering it in Kashmiri so that the soldiers overlooking the detained group can’t get him later.
In the evening when GK team was returning from Rafiabad, the GK reporter received a call. The caller informed that after the GK team left the spot, the army officer snatched their I-cards and ordered them to report to the camp thrice a day.
The GK reporter on Wednesday morning received another call and the caller, who turned out to be one of the detained shopkeepers, said scores of people including women are demonstrating on the streets against the army.
“The soldiers called Ajaz Ahmad Dar, a shopkeeper in Ladoora Market, to the camp and beat him up savagely. He was tortured for one hour,” the caller said. Some days ago they beat up Abdul Qayoom Mir, the protesters told GK’s Varmul correspondent Altaf Baba.
The protesters stopped the car of Tehsildar Rohama and demanded the end to harassment and intimidation. The Tehsildar and the Station House Officer of Rohama police station assured the protesters that they would talk to the higher army officials about this issue.
From Abdul Jaleel, a reader from Pulwama, by e-mail (received on Tuesday)
“Sir, we want to bring to the notice of general public that CRPF, SOG, and Army have launched a campaign to arrest youths who were leading pro-freedom marches to Eidgah, TRC Ground, and Muzaffarabad.
If a few youths good at shouting slogans and have a good voice and are capable of leading peaceful marches why are troops arresting them. Lakhs of people participated in the protests but only a few are being booked. We request Imams of all the Masjids to ask people to foil any attempt to arrest the youths in their respective localities by demonstrating collectively on the roads.”
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PostSubject: Women Beaten, Kids Thrashed, Youth Paraded Naked; SHO Refuses To File FIR Against CRPF   Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:29 pm

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Wangud, Qazigund (Kulgam), Sep 4: The CRPF troopers beat up and wounded several women and more than 12 teenagers in this small hamlet in south Kashmir, during the strict curfew last week after the villagers refused to sing “Jai Mata Di (Long live Mata (Indian goddess)” “Vanday Mataram (I bow before thee o motherland),” and the Indian national anthem.
Not to be quoted by their names was the first request of the villagers, as they feared further reprisals. The villagers said they are “being terrorized” for participating in pro-independence marches.
The villagers said on August 26 the troopers of 154 Bn CRPF caught hold of a group of youth outside a Darasgah and asked them to sing Indian national anthem.
“One of the youth, Muhammad Ishaq Wani, refused to sing it saying he didn’t know anything about it and even if the Indian prime minister forced him to sing it he would not. This was not liked by the troopers and they tore off his clothes, leaving him naked,” the villagers said. Ishaq is a 12th pass student and working as a salesman.
After parading Ishaq naked, the troopers barged into dozens of houses and beat up the inmates to pulp, the villagers said. “They threw stones on window panes of the houses and damaged several vehicles,” the villagers said. The troopers had brought stones in a gunnysack, the villagers said.
Women who tried to intervene were also beaten severely. According to villagers, 40-year-old Hafeeza wife of Abdul Majeed Wani was brutally beaten by the troopers with bamboo sticks and gun buts inside a cow shed where she bled for nearly half an hour before her neighbours took her to hospital. She has six stitches in her head, and the bandage was blood stained.
Hafeeza’s daughter Mehbooba too was not spared when she attempted to rescue her mother. “The troopers threatened Hafeeza of dire consequences if she told the villagers or the media how she was injured,” the villagers said.
Mahtaba Bano, 70, wife of Abdul Majeed Wani has multiple bruises and haematoma. “She was asking them to stop atrocities, but she was thrashed severely,” the villagers added.
A pregnant woman Nayeema Akhtar wife of Fayaz Ahmad Wani was hit with bamboo sticks on her back.
The residents said a woman named Chashmeeda was walking on the road carrying her three-month-old baby when the troopers snatched the baby from her and beat her up severely. Chashmeeda has multiple injuries on arm.
“The troopers entered the house of a mentally challenged person and beat up his son Zakir Hussain Kuttay so savagely that he has 14 stitches in his head and arm,” the villagers said adding the troopers smashed the Dish TV antenna of one Muhammad Yousuf Rather while the vehicle of his fellow villager Abdul Hameed Wani was partially damaged.
“More than 200 glass panes were smashed with stones,” the villagers said.
They said the troopers tried to set ablaze the house of a villager Mushtaq Ahmad Sheikh by spraying it with kerosene but his neighbor Muhammad Yousuf Rather snatched the kerosene can from the troopers. “Following this, the troopers broke Rather’s legs by ruthlessly beating him with gun butts,” the villagers said. Rather has fracture in his right leg.
A 10-year-old boy, Abrar Ahmad, was severely beaten. “The troopers asked him about his favourite cricket player. He named Shoaib Akhtar. Hearing this, the troopers started beating him,” the villagers said. They said Ahmad was rescued by his father who told the troopers that Abarar’s favourite player was Sachin Tendulkar and not Shoaib Akhtar.
The villagers said after the “collective punishment” the troopers left the area at 4 pm, but returned again to sing “Jana Gana Mana” and “Vanday Mataram” in the village. “More than 200 troopers in a frenzy celebrated in the village Allah knows what. They raised anti-Islam and anti-Azadi slogans,” the villagers said.
They said the Station House Officer of Dooru Police Station refused to file an FIR against the troopers.
“Please don’t name any of the victims in your story. The CRPF troopers will simply kill us. There is nobody here to listen to us, not even the police and district administration,” the villagers said.
The CRPF officials, however, deny having any information about the incident. “I don’t know anything about it. But I will certainly talk to the concerned commandant and ask him to inquire the matter,” said the CRPF’s Srinagar-based spokesman, Prabhakar Tripathi. “If the allegations are proved right, we will be taking action against the erring troopers. We won’t tolerate indiscipline at any cost.”
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PostSubject: myth of descrimination--read dear anon brother   Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:42 pm

this for all who beat the drum of descrimination against jammu people and economic packages for kashmir valley...i would request dear brother anon to read this and make a just opinion...
Quote :
A rhetoric which has yet again proven indispensable to the ‘secular’ trishul-wielding citizens in their latest jameen triumph over their ‘communal’ subjects. The blood of six ‘martyrs’ in Jammu valued more than the blood of fifty odd ‘infidels’ in Kashmir. Their two month losses in trade somehow added up to more than the two decade losses we suffered. The ‘agitation’ in Jammu became a matter of national emergency and moral priority while the Kashmir ‘dissidence’ became separatist propaganda. Their committee ‘accords’ our land to them, representation no bar, sentiment no bar, environment no bar, majority no bar, a no bar, well even law no bar. Never mind.
The State Rehabilitation Council provides data on the trail of disasters we have had over the past two decades. These distasteful comparisons are of course macabre and gory but never the less essential for this debate which has been forced on Kashmir. The number of widows, militant and civilian, ‘due to militancy’ stands at 4104 for Jammu and 15353 for Kashmir. Within Jammu division, Jammu accounts for only six of these widows. The bulk of this number is made up by widows in the ‘anti-national’ districts of Poonch, Rajouri, Doda and Kishtwar (muslim areas). So yes, in death Jammu certainly stands discriminated. The Council also provides data on the number of orphans ‘due to militancy.’ Kashmir accounts for 20623 orphans while Jammu division has 5732. Again, the pattern is no different. Jammu has two. You don’t have to guess where the other numbers add from. We will not talk about the total causalities suffered in Kashmir. The figures will include militants, pro government gunmen, the innocent old and young, men and women.
In response to the Kashmir struggle, New Delhi made various promises, be it Plebiscite, ‘Sky is the limit’, Insaniyat. But honored none. Then it was decided to silence the state with economic packages. Everything got reduced to this. All grudges, protests, sacrifices were to be equated with these windfalls. We will only take two such packages which were endowed in response to the devastation. The Prime Minister’s package and the Industrial package, both announced during the previous Government’s first innings.
The Prime Minister’s Rehabilitation package was branded as a memorable and celebrated sop to Kashmir. Its fruit, for decades of sacrifice, suffering and sabotage. It was meant for reconstruction of the damaged infrastructure and creation of new avenues of progress and employment in Kashmir which Jammu had already achieved thanks to the massive diversion of funds from Kashmir as a result of militancy. The Prime Minister’s package was worth Rs. 24000 crores, later revised to about Rs. 29000 crores. On this ‘exclusive’ endowment to address our alienation, Kashmir only got Rs. 6447.74 crores, while Jammu got a ‘reconstruction’ boost of Rs. 12530.8 crores, grossly disproportionate to their sacrifice. Knock knock discrimination! We deserved, they desired. And were happily obliged, time and again. We left out in the cold, time and again. From the rest of the package Ladakh got Rs. 2804.38 crores. The remains were diverted to state level sectors and projects such as Transmission & Distribution, Mughal Road, ADB-Counter part funding and so on. That figure stands at Rs. 8929.44 crores.
Moving on to the Industrial Package. The package attracted an Investment of about Rs. 5000 crores to generate employment and amplify the industrial growth in ‘marginalized’ Kashmir. The package also offered impressive incentives to our entrepreneurs in the form of Excise and Sales Tax refunds. But even this package failed to cross Bari Brahmana, and in rare cases managed to reach Udhampur. Kashmir reduced to a spectator, getting less than 10 percent of this Industrial Package while Jammu ran away with the rest, smoothly. The industrial area in Jammu flourished further and units cropped up everywhere with this hijacked mega incentive while as Industry continued to be as elusive to Kashmir as ever. And this won’t probably change for long, considering the strong blockade and respective diversion our funds face at Nagrota. The figures below testify our discrimination in the Industrial Package, which was supposed to be our for the taking.
For the previous year (2006-07) the Excise refund stands at Rs. 950 crores. Kashmir component is less than Rs. 90 crores. Sales Tax refund stands at Rs. 400 crores per year, Kashmir component is less that Rs. 40 crores. Very consistent. The Wholesale depots and C&F company depots are shifted to Jammu even though they service the consumer market in Kashmir. Rs. 200 crores are annually collected as sales tax alone in Jammu but paid by dealers from Kashmir, who accordingly have to be at the disposal of the lalajis of Kanakmandi. Unfair.
This is the story of Kashmir. Alienation, abuse of ‘fundamental’ rights, uprising, biased perceptions, Indian delusion, brute oppression, massacres, choked genuine voices, hollow promises, lies, damned lies, wrong statistics, irrelevance, indifference, intrigues, under representation, widows, orphans, mistrust, fake rhetoric, puppet governments, underdevelopment, ‘stolen’ packages, ‘stolen’ land (to sound up to date), and our very own discrimination, in all sizes and colors. It’s a pity to what we have been reduced by Jammu and its efficient propaganda machines, in multiple spheres. People who have been outside India would probably understand when I say what a mission it is to make people there understand where Jammu really is on the map, or what Jammu is, in some cases! Kashmir is still the global brand. The effort is to upstage it. With what we have outlined in this series, there is no doubt that Jammu is seeking to emerge as a reference point to Kashmir. But I’m sure Kashmir’s inherent strength, its soul and spirit, will survive all fake competitions.

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PostSubject: Troops continue night raids in Shahr-e-Khaas, hunt for protesters   Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:57 pm

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Srinagar, Sep 6: Nocturnal raids by police and CPRF in Nowhatta area of Shahr-e-Khaas in the summer capital are giving sleepless nights to the residents who complain of being thrashed and intimidated by the troops. The residents said troops are hunting for some teenagers of the area accusing them of having participated in protests past weeks.
“Bring them to the police station or we won’t let you live!” The residents say this is what troopers say while leaving the area after running a “running a reign of terror” in the dead of the dark.
On Friday, at around 10:30 PM, troops second time in the week, raided Rang Hamam and adjoining Baha-ud-Din Sahib area.
During the joint operations of police and CRPF, the residents said the troops barged into the houses, conducted house-to-house searches and thrashed the inmates.
No one is ready to reveal his or her identity pleading that police has threatened them of reporting it to media. So the complainants spoke on the condition of anonymity.
“We had arrived from Masjid after Tarawi and were about to sleep when someone banged the door. And when I opened, a dozen odd troops popped in with a punch on my face,” complained a resident of Rang Hamam.
He said without asking anything the armed troops some of whom were in civvies donning Khan Suits and Phirans went around the house. The family alleged some of the troops were drunk.
“Finally, after an hour of roaming around they herded all the family members to a room and beat us seeking whereabouts of my son,” said a resident.
“Police said he (son) was involved in the protests and must be produced in the police station. Even though I pleaded that he is a teenager, they didn’t pay any heed and threatened me of dire consequences.”
The family head added: “They (troops) said we will raze the entire area to ground if the youth aren’t handed over to us.”
The locals say, fearing arrests many youth have migrated from the area to safer places.
Life at Nowhatta, the residents say has become a hell following raids and the threats.
“They create a fear before barging into residential houses by switching off the street lights and not letting anyone to some out on the streets,” said a resident of Baha Ud Din sahib.
“Moreover, some of them are drunk so anything worst is expected from them,” the complainants alleged.
When contacted police station Nowhatta refuted the complaints.
“We have no such information,” said the Thana Munshi.
Meanwhile, residents appealed Co-ordination committee to look into the matter.
“Why are they silent? They must help us out,” a delegation of the residents said.
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PostSubject: @ather   Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:36 am

Dear brother Ather,

I have tried to assimilate the extract that you pasted in support of your point of view , also reflected in totality by a local newspaper of Srinagar, which seems to be the original point of view of a gentleman who may have submitted this writeup.
More than half of this write-up deals with statistics of ‘death packages’ in conflict, rather than economic packages that was the topic of discussion. Human suffering leaves a bad taste in the mouth always, whether it is in Kashmir, or any where else in the country. Even as such, I firmly believe, and you may not, that the State has to enforce law on factions that threaten its soverignity, whether by waging a war against it, colluding with an enemy country to sabotage its integrity, or by supporting such movement,…. the same way it accepts the deaths of its forces somewhere on an unmarked kargil feature, haji Pir, or while defusing an IED near Hyderpora. The dynamics are the same. The bullet or grenade doesn’t know a militant from a freedom fighter, a bystander from a grenade carrying teenager, a trishul wielding Indian soldier from a Bengali tourist vehicle at Lal Chowk. We can talk about it a whole day, you telling me how innocent and peaceful protesters were fired upon, and I telling you how hundreds of innocent people including women and children living in remote villages were de capacitated , de-bowelled, and mutilated by people that you supported and invited to fight for your ‘cause’. There are always two sides to a story, there is never one my friend. The question is , why do you waste your time expecting us to be crushed by ‘guilt’or remorse? We hold many of your side accountable for taking part, supporting, or instigating many human rights violations and crimes against humanity in J&K and elsewhere. I think those all should get off their high moral ground and do some serious soul searching.

Your details of “Economic Packages’, and you have referred to two of them are very specific and therefore I shall reply in specifics after I have the figures consolidated. I may have to call upon your knowledge base if need be. I hope your figures are authenticated and supplementary to the cut and paste operation from a local daily.

Also, you might like to correct me , when you talk about packages, are you only talking about Kashmir region? I thought your J&K state which you claim as oppressed included Jammu and Ladakh region too. Because if you only talk of the Kashmir region, them my friend, we are not on the same grid. Packages are given to States as a whole, and not regions within a state. And how it is planned to be distributed depends on how the planning commissions with guidance and inputs of the political government decides to distribute them. I am sure all political dispositions in the state so far have been elected democratically, and represent all the regions of the state. I think, except for the governors rule when the governor is the head, rest all chief ministers have been from the Valley, right?

“Statistics have it that not one per cent of the
J&K’s 13 million people are houseless and nobody dies of
hunger. The state consumes meat worth Rs 400 crore and
sells hides at throwaway prices that could be a Rs 300 crore
economy, buys cars worth Rs 150 crore, burns up fuel
worth Rs 1300 crore, consumes cement worth Rs 550 crore,
medicine worth Rs 500 crore and cigarettes worth Rs 150
crore. It employs 60 per cent of its labour force from UP
and Bihar and some skilled sections from Punjab”

“The state has also signed four MOUs with foreign
consortiums for setting up power projects but no project
has so far taken off. Dr Blackwill, the former US
ambassador during his visit to the state had
brought along director US AID and promised help but
nothing materialized. Infosys Technology CEO Narayana
Murthy who visited Valley as part of PM’s entourage spent
two days in Srinagar. But he refused investment in the state
citing market slump and violence as the two main factors.
Pertinent to mention here, the state by 1997 had pegged the
investment potential in non-energy sectors at Rs 3500 crore
and Rs 6650 crore in the energy sector.

Through the first half of the nineties, the ground situation
in the valley collapsed to the extent that even the fund
allocations in most of the sectors could not be spent. These
were either diverted to Jammu or were simply lapsed.
Corruption also reigned supreme and works were shown to
have been executed on paper only. In one case, deputy
commissioner of district Anantnag was found to have
misappropriated development funds to the tune of Rs 9
crore. Similarly Rs 32 crore scandal came to the fore during
the upgradation of the Srinagar-Bandipora road for
Kishenganga Hydel Project which was subsequently
shelved. There have also been allegations of corrupt
practices in the execution of Dal Development Project
being financed by the centre.”

regards
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PostSubject: Re: Muzaffarabad Challo   Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:48 am

dear brother,
i dnt see where most of these packages are death packages..what i can see is that most of them are economic packages and some ofcourse death packages..even if i agree to it, i have also given the number of widows,orphans,killed,crippled in the regions of jammu and kashmir..dnt u think then these packages should have gone to the affected region rather than the unaffected...????
i will not discuss the other part of ur 1st para coz that would divert the topic and those are ur views which we have already discussed upon a lot earlier..
when i talk about packages then ofcourse they are for the whole state and ur argument is correct when u say that it is for the adminstration to decide how to distribute the funds..the problem with the adminstration is explained in one of my posts where i have given u the figures of the number of people in the adminstrative services from jammu and from outside the state and from kashmir region..some of the major points i will list out..the % of emloyees in the state with respect to the total strength of there communities is:hindus with 4.61% of 30 lakh hindu population whereas muslims represent 2.85% for 68 lakh muslim population..total IAS officers in the state is 94 with 24 from kashmir,27 from jammu and whopping 41 from outside the state..out of 26 chief secretaries of the state since 1947, only 6 have been kashmiri muslims..out of 388 KAS officers, 155 from kashmir and 151 from jammu..jammu region represents far more from its % population..from 2001 till date 478 KAS appointments have been made..kashmir 106, ladakh at 12 and jammu at 360..now that is the problem..
.......these are just few points..if u have such a distribution of the people in adminstration services both in KAS and IAS then one has to question..why is it always on the basis of 50:50 or many a times in favour of jammu which has far less population and area as compared to kashmir..now the situation in next 5 years would be that even tehsildars would have to be imported from outside the state..i agree that the chief minister has always been from kashmir region..number one he is never elected by the people but selected by new delhi and the people who matter are the people at grass root level..people who make decisions and implement them..anyone who has visited jammu and kashmir both will be able to differentiate..y should i be against the development of jammu or ladakh..thats a part of our state because one thing in favour of jammu is its location geographically after 1947..before 1947 the trade route was from kashmir to pakistan and central asnow it is towards south (india) through jammu..jammu has rail service and climate is also a factor..but should that be the justification for the selection process too..???
as far as ur figures of meat and tobacco consumption and other things are i think they are again for the whole state and not for kashmir region alone..i would on any day agree with that if the figures are genuine..but who is arguing over that..my point of posting those statistics earlier and even in this post was just to clearify the myth of descrimination which people say has been done with the people of jammu and to those people who talk about packages...i would agree that some of the projects got derailed because of the situation in 90's but even some of the projects got derailed by those people whom i mentioned above..reliance wanted to set up an info park last to last year but there was no response from the state adminstration and now u know who in the state adminstration are..
and u should not in anycase talk about LAWDA which deals with the dal development..that is the most corrupt depertment in the state and dal is suffering coz of them alone...
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PostSubject: @Ather   Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:26 am

dear brother,

Quote :
i have also given the number of widows,orphans,killed,crippled in the regions of jammu and kashmir..dnt u think then these packages should have gone to the affected region rather than the unaffected...????
I agree with you that somehow all the packages that were meant to alleviate the alienation among the affected never had the required effect. I accept that no amount of packages can compensate for lives lost. That being so, I must admit that I’m still at a loss if I try to think how these much publicised packages could have gone directly to the regions and the people who suffered direct losses, and not for construction of some high altitude road! I agree with you that the government should have been sensitive to the human loss factor and should have tried to assuage their personal losses by devising a more transparent and effective package.
Quote :
the % of emloyees in the state with respect to the total strength of there communities is:hindus with 4.61% of 30 lakh hindu population whereas muslims represent 2.85% for 68 lakh muslim population..total IAS officers in the state is 94 with 24 from kashmir,27 from jammu and whopping 41 from outside the state..out of 26 chief secretaries of the state since 1947, only 6 have been kashmiri muslims..out of 388 KAS officers, 155 from kashmir and 151 from jammu..jammu region represents far more from its % population..from 2001 till date 478 KAS appointments have been made..kashmir 106, ladakh at 12 and jammu at 360..now that is the problem..
Asuming that all the statistics supplied above are true, (and I am not sure about the hindu/muslim ratio which I will check)I would like you to consider the following-

1. In J&K, the government employee is the only truly secular ‘tabqa’ who does not bother about hindu/muslim because they are too busy in either being ‘yes men’ of their superiors (be they of any denomination) or finding ways and means to make that extra buck. Their participation in the formulation of any economic package is near zero. They are only meant for implementation of such budgets on the ground, about which less said the better. Now lets talk about the higher echelons of power, the Secretaries to Govt level or the Chief Secretary levels. Keep out the community aspect because 99.9% are loyal to the chair, they are just post offices wo largely base their perceptions of the ground situation on feedback received from lower formations. Their role, at the best is how to save their skins at all times, therefore they are INCAPABLE of standing up for the right and usually end up meekly surrendering their conscience before their ‘aka’, their political masters. However, sometimes they are in a position to advise, but the final call is always in the hands of the political disposition. Now take the case of the economic packages. The political disposition of the State is the level responsible to advise the central government on the desirable thrust areas of the package. These are pre-announcement stages of the package, and I will not keep back from saying that all packages are discussed by the State Government and the central Govt first before it is sanctioned.
Therefore my friend, even if you have 90% muslims and 10% other communities in the government, or vice versa, it will not change anything in a corrupt and conscienceless government. Maybe it only ensure more jobs to the particular community favoured…but that about all. It will not effect the way economic packages are visualised or executed on ground

Quote :
.......these are just few points..if u have such a distribution of the people in adminstration services both in KAS and IAS then one has to question..why is it always on the basis of 50:50 or many a times in favour of jammu which has far less population and area as compared to kashmir..now the situation in next 5 years would be that even tehsildars would have to be imported from outside the state..
I hate to disagree , because of the following facts:

1. There is no 50:50 distribution of KAS or KPS seats between Kashmir and Jammu. There is a Combined Services Competetive Exams held in J&K by the J&K PSC on the pattern of All india Services exams, and the results are based on merit. Even in case of recruitment to non gazetted posts, there is a set district wise, community wise, and region wise ratio that has to be adhered to while making such appointments. Therefore imbalance in recruitment is not possible. Yes we know of some cases, where some back door entries have been made by the governments, interestingly these candidates are more from the non hindu communities and are usually protested against in the form of writ petitions in the courts of law.

2. However, there is a 50:50 system for induction of State officers into the All India Services, that was 70:30 to the State’s advantage some 25 years back. However, The State government agreed to get in more All India Service officers into the state and their quota was increased to 50:50…..of course to the disadvantage of the local officers. It was not that the local officers were not capable, but the political dispensation did not object.


In the end, I would say that I agree with you on many things that you wrote here. If the development packages did not have the effect that it was supposed to have then it surely means that there was something wrong in it. If at anypoint of time in the last 60 years, the political dispensation has truly had a representative character which I am sure they were, they should have identified thrust areas of development, and brought transparency in its execution on ground vis-à-vis alienation of the Valley. The Central Govt acted like a bull in a china shop, and seems to have no long term policy. Even if it has one, I am sure we will know about it when all is over for J&K. Now things have come to such a pass that both the regions are alienated, Kashmir from India, and Jammu from the Kashmir centric rulers.

One silver lining though is the personal relations that still exist between both the divides. When the chips are down, and the passions subside, hindus and muslims of J&K can still look back at the warmth that their age long cultural bonding gave to them. If there are differences between them today, they are more ideological than communal. I have no doubts about that. They can spew hatred against each other when they don’t face each other. It’s a diferent story when their eyes meet…

In that context, its not a skewed nationalism that keeps ‘indians’ from letting their kashmiri brothers opt for freedom. We really feel that independence or secceeding to pakistan will bring with it the beginning of another long journey that maybe more than not, will ‘change everything for you’. If you are adamant, then we can only bid you a warm ‘adeiu’, and pray that whatever changes is for your good.

regards
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PostSubject: @anon   Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:49 am

thankyou brother for ur warm reply...
...the major problem with the state of J&K is the system by which it is run...or should i say there is no system..
...rather than a humane approach or a more credible political approach to the problem would have surely solved the problem or should i say the problem would not have arised at all...if u look at the mass uprising since 1989 what do u think was the major reason for it..well i and many others do believe that it was the rigging of 1987 elections on a huge scale..there are just a couple of elections in the history of kashmir under the union of india which have been free and fair which even MR.Vajpayee had to confess...and when people today ask the hurriyat or other so called seperatist leaders to participate in the elections i ask everyone y should they...??
the most hated kashmiri leader in india, MR.Geelani with some of the other present leaders participated in 1987 elections and after the rigging of elections and when national conference cameto power there was a huge crackdown on these people and were severely punished for participating in the elections..these are not my views..history bears testimony to it..that is what i mean when i say that in kashmir there is election but selection by new delhi..that was the approach of the central government which led to the present uprising..kashmir has the potential to even beat shanghai..economists say that not me...make it even half of shanghai..the problem is that india wants to solve the issue with financial packages not keeping in mind that these packages cannot be compensated with the lives lost..a nations biggest resource is its human resource..i really want someone to take a survey of these death packages and see how many affected people have actually received these finances and how much has been pocketed by the authorities...nobody can deny that kashmir is a problem for the sub-continent..india,pakistan cannot claim there rights on kashmir unless kashmiris dnt decide for themselves..i do not believe at all when some of the indian leaders say that y do we need plebiscite when we are having elections..they make me laugh..kashmir is world's one of the most densly militirized region with around 7 lac army personals and with the history of elections behind them,they are just making political statements...
the present crisis is india's making rather than pakistan's..they took the advantage according to many across india but only when india provided one...the problem with free and fair elections are many which is a debate in itself but to the say the least that will create the same situation as in kosovo..india had to deal with unarmed protestors this time around rather than people with guns as in 90's..even then the approach was the same or should i say even worst because now people have firm belief that what gun could not achieve in 90's unarmed people with monstreous processions achieved today and the credit goes to MR.Arun kumar who made the irresponsible statements with his arrogant attitude..
the most appropriate solution in my view is to treat kashmiris as humans,give them there rights and stop inhumane approach towards the problem...The present upsurge should have made all concerned wiser about the basic political problem in Kashmir and attempts should have been made vigorously to address it through dialogue with the genuine representatives of the people. On the contrary a clamp down worse than the one resorted to in nineties has been put in force. This was probably the strictest curfew in the history of Kashmir. Even the scribes, medical personnel, ambulance drivers, and patients were not spared..india has managed to bring kashmiris to there knees this time but has lost the chance of winning there hearts and soul..
“India will never let down Kashmir!” ....thats what pandit nehru said in historic lal chowk..
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PostSubject: @ anon   Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:52 am

thankyou brother for ur warm reply...
...the major problem with the state of J&K is the system by which it is run...or should i say there is no system..
...rather than a humane approach or a more credible political approach to the problem would have surely solved the problem or should i say the problem would not have arised at all...if u look at the mass uprising since 1989 what do u think was the major reason for it..well i and many others do believe that it was the rigging of 1987 elections on a huge scale..there are just a couple of elections in the history of kashmir under the union of india which have been free and fair which even MR.Vajpayee had to confess...and when people today ask the hurriyat or other so called seperatist leaders to participate in the elections i ask everyone y should they...??
the most hated kashmiri leader in india, MR.Geelani with some of the other present leaders participated in 1987 elections and after the rigging of elections and when national conference came to power there was a huge crackdown on these people and were severely punished for participating in the elections..these are not my views..history bears testimony to it..that is what i mean when i say that in kashmir there is no election but selection by new delhi..that was the approach of the central government which led to the present uprising..kashmir has the potential to even beat shanghai..economists say that not me...make it even half of shanghai..the problem is that india wants to solve the issue with financial packages not keeping in mind that these packages cannot be compensated with the lives lost..a nations biggest resource is its human resource..i really want someone to take a survey of these death packages and see how many affected people have actually received these finances and how much has been pocketed by the authorities...nobody can deny that kashmir is a problem for the sub-continent..india,pakistan cannot claim there rights on kashmir unless kashmiris dnt decide for themselves..i do not believe at all when some of the indian leaders say that y do we need plebiscite when we are having elections..they make me laugh..kashmir is world's one of the most densly militirized region with around 7 lac army personals and with the history of elections behind them,they are just making political statements...
the present crisis is india's making rather than pakistan's..they took the advantage according to many across india but only when india provided one...the problem with free and fair elections are many which is a debate in itself but to the say the least that will create the same situation as in kosovo..india had to deal with unarmed protestors this time around rather than people with guns as in 90's..even then the approach was the same or should i say even worst because now people have firm belief that what gun could not achieve in 90's unarmed people with monstreous processions achieved today and the credit goes to MR.Arun kumar who made the irresponsible statements with his arrogant attitude..
the most appropriate solution in my view is to treat kashmiris as humans,give them there rights and stop inhumane approach towards the problem...The present upsurge should have made all concerned wiser about the basic political problem in Kashmir and attempts should have been made vigorously to address it through dialogue with the genuine representatives of the people. On the contrary a clamp down worse than the one resorted to in nineties has been put in force. This was probably the strictest curfew in the history of Kashmir. Even the scribes, medical personnel, ambulance drivers, and patients were not spared..india has managed to bring kashmiris to there knees this time but has lost the chance of winning there hearts and soul..
“India will never let down Kashmir!” ....thats what pandit nehru said in historic lal chowk..[/quote]
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PostSubject: Re: Muzaffarabad Challo   Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:26 am

I understand your point of view as I subscribe to the same view as far as the poitical handling, especially of the Kashmir Valley is concerned. The modern day politics has unfortunately degraded itself into 'realpolitik', and has no 'heart'. Thats the real hurdle that today's world is up against and thats the reason why sometimes territories carry more value for nations than the people living there. But I also believe that a day inevitably comes when issues can't be ignored any longer, and the bull has to be taken by the horn. Lets hope that the day comes soon when that window of opportunity opens. And when that happens, just be careful you choose the right window.
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PostSubject: Re: Muzaffarabad Challo   Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:47 pm

hated-in wrote:
Quote :

Srinagar, Aug 31: The economic blockade enforced by extremist groups in Jammu has caused a loss of whopping Rs 600 crores to fruit growers in the Valley, a leader of fruit growers committee said.
Bashir Ahmad Bhat, chairman of the Kashmir Coordination Committee, an apex body of the Kashmir Valley Fruit Growers and Dealers, said till August 30 the fruit growers have lost over Rs 600 crore due to economic blockade and stringent curfew imposed by the government.

For 600 crores, they could have built a new road from Srinagar to Pathankot passing through Himachal Pradesh. The question is not whether such a road could have been built, but why it has not yet been built. Obviously no one in either J&K or Delhi has brains. Wasn't this the same road that was shelled by Pakistan during Kargil. Well then, the losses so far are probably 1200 crores or more. For that you could have built a super expressway from Srinagar to all the mandies in the world.

peace wrote:

no it wasnt the same road..that was NH-1 leading towards ladakh...

Anyone has more details on the "Mughal Road" project. Is this an alternate route to Jammu-Kashmir highway? (not able to figure this out from news articles) As per recent news the state government has approved 640 crore "Mughal Road" project which includes a 20km long tunnel.

Source:
http://www.risingkashmir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6552&Itemid=1
http://www.greaterkashmir.net/full_story.asp?Date=25_9_2008&ItemID=39&cat=1
http://www.hindu.com/2005/05/08/stories/2005050803701200.htm
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