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 JANUARY 5TH 2009 IS SELF DETERMINATION DAY

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PostSubject: JANUARY 5TH 2009 IS SELF DETERMINATION DAY   Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:48 am

Dear members,

First of all, I would like to apologize for my absence.
I would like to congratulate each and every one for keeping the discussions on this forum very civilized and respectful. Therefore it is unnecessary to change any settings for posting on this forum.
@peace
Please accept my apologies. I just read the message you had sent. Your request was acted upon promptly.

The main reason for this post is for us to join our fellow brothers and sisters of the nation in observing "Self-determination day" on January 5th 2009.

Many have suggested that we show our solidarity with our fellow country men and women by wearing black ribbons on car antennas, scooters etc. Please join us in this peaceful means of protest.
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Chinaar
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PostSubject: Phone in to protest   Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:19 pm

I hope the Hurriyat/CC leaders see this:

No more strike calls, let people earn a bit.....poverty in kashmir is heart-wrenching......when your children are hungry for days on end amidst continual strike calls n undeclared curfews, the thoughts of Azaadi go outta the window.

So whats the solution.....how to move forward from here......here are a few suggestions:

1) Advertise around 10-15 telephone numbers in the local/National dailies. On January 5 (Self determination day) ask people to go to their businesses/work on this day but as a mark of their protest/participation, ask them to call on these particular numbers for the whole day starting from 9 in the morning to 5 in the evening (Invite all media personnel/independent observers to monitor these calls). Record the number of calls made to these numbers. The caller does not have to talk....just 4 rings n disconnect.......the number on the id is his/her protest against the illegal occupation of J&K by India. On January 6th Publish the number of calls made to these numbers as a mark of protest, if properly done, the results may run into thousands n thousands.

2) Ask the people who have voted for NC/Congress/PDP to demand from their representatives in the government the resolution of the Kashmir issue. Trust me, u can use the Indian politicians in J&K to a good degree in promoting the J&K cause. Let people judge their activities n decide.

3) In the coming few weeks/months, the onus should not be on hartals/strikes (it is a dilipidated worn out technique of protest)....but on developing strong organisational networking, sticking to a common minimum programme n please no brick batting.

4) Try to inculcate innovative ideas into the freedom struggle for eg: On January 26th this year, Hurriyat/CC should give no strike calls but issue a statement that people of J&K/Hurriyat respect the republic day of India to the utmost degree and on this great day of the Indian nation, we ask them to respect our rights/aspirations and do justice to us as promised by their great nation. I believe no strike call on the 26th of January after 20 years of
shutting down on this day will send an important message to New Delhi.

5) ALL school children/college going graduates and people of all denominations should wear dark arm bands on designated days as a mark of protest against India. Go on with your daily duties but wear a dark preferably black arm band.

6) On January 5 (Self determination day), ask all motorists to keep their lights on during the day as a mark of protest. As they move around doing their jobs etc, all they have to do is keep the head lights of their vehicles on during broad daylight. PUBLISH these instructions in all the local dailies.

7) Set up various boxes across J&K and ask people to drop in suggestions/grievances to improve the functioning of the Hurriyat.

We all know that the resentment against Indian occupation of J&K runs very deep in our blood, however poverty/hunger/desperation/frustrations tend to cloud the judgements of even the most intelligent amongst us n therefore.....Hurriyats better start innovating or else the Kashmiris will kick your behinds brutally for not evolving according to the situation on the ground. Trust me the Kashmir issue will not die but the Hurriyat may!!!

I hope someone carries these points across to CC/Hurriyat leaders, I am sure they r worth trying n wont cost much. Very Happy
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MYM
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PostSubject: Re: JANUARY 5TH 2009 IS SELF DETERMINATION DAY   Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:17 am

@Chinaar

Thankyou for the great suggestions.
I like all your suggestions except the one about phone calls.
Most Kashmiris do not own phones.
All the other ones are excellent ideas.
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Chinaar
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PostSubject: PHONE IN   Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:39 am

@ MYM

Thank you.

I understand most Kashmiris don't have phones but u have to understand, a phone call works like a cohort study......every single call is generalised to the level of atleast a 1000 or in other words its about percentiles. Every time a caller calls in, he/she represents a segment of the population. Remember how pre-poll evaluations across the USA showed OBAMA was leading (and he actually won). I mean if you extra-polate each call and summarise on the basis of caller ids, you will come to know how many calls came from how many regions.....this would be the basis on which you can eventually to a margin of error of upto 2-5% accurately summarise how different regions in J&K support the freedom movement. For example the number of callers from Jammu city proper n Udhampur r gonna be minimal (for obvious reasons).

You can eventually use this scientifically collected data at international forums. Very Happy
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Sartaj
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PostSubject: Re: JANUARY 5TH 2009 IS SELF DETERMINATION DAY   Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:00 am

Thankyou for information.
Mirwaiz also supports this. I found this, but GK hasnt reported it.

Quote :
Right to self-determination day on Monday
Kashmiris to continue liberation struggle


Srinagar, January 01 (KMS): Kashmiris on both sides of the Line of Control and the world over will observe the Right to Self-Determination Day, on Monday-January 5, to renew their pledge to continue the liberation struggle till its logical end.

Call for the observance of the day was given by the Chairman of All Parties Hurriyet Conference, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq in a statement issued in Srinagar. He urged India to stop its state terrorism to create a conducive atmosphere for the resolution of Kashmir dispute in accordance with Kashmiris’ aspirations.

It was on January 5 in 1949 that the United Nations Security Council passed a resolution, which recognised the right to self-determination of the people of Jammu and Kashmir.

The President of the Bar Association of occupied Kashmir, Mian Abdul Qayyum, while addressing a lawyers’ gathering at Press Colony in Srinagar today, said that the formation of a new puppet regime in the occupied territory would not affect the indigenous liberation movement of Kashmiris, which would be continued against all odds.. The demonstrators on the occasion raised high-pitched slogans against India and Israel.



Code:
http://www.kmsnews.org/news/right-self-determination-day-monday
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MYM
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PostSubject: Re: JANUARY 5TH 2009 IS SELF DETERMINATION DAY   Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:54 am

I agree, it might work as a scientific study. But then we are relying on the Indian cellular network which they can disrupt anytime. We are not talking about a level playing field.

In the recent farce elections, SMS text messages were completely banned. What is to say they similarly wont just disconnect the advertised numbers citing "security reasons" or simply "technical difficulties"

Other subtle forms of protest such as wearing black ribbons, keeping headlights on, human chain etc are inclusive of everyone, and very less prone to manipulation by the occupation Indian forces. Although it does bring the participants directly in harms way, who may be subjected to torture by the Indians. I think that is the reason why APHC settles for hartal. But I agree it is time to move away from hartal, and employ these subtle forms of protest instead, but at the same time keep a close watch out for harassment by the occupation forces on peaceful observants of the protest. This will be easier now that we have access to phones with video capabilities and can post them directly on the internet.
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Chinaar
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PostSubject: phone in   Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:14 am

Another way of suppressing freedom of expression....I agree, the Indians can stoop to any level.

However, its worth a try...try using mobile n land lines of multiple phone companies at the same time....that might help.

The Indians can n will stop us everywhere...but that doesn't mean we give up or stop trying.

thanks for your response though.
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troubsum
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PostSubject: Kashmir history..   Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:10 pm

My Dear kashmiri brothers and sisters...

Why do you act in such a irresponsible behaviour.. If you are acting just on basis of religion ,then you also think of history where you and other hindus either were forced to convert into Islam..
If you think of independence and join pakistan where hindus got converted either through rape and other means into islam ..
Please think and know the history ..
and remeber that one day India will regain all its lost territories and I bet you all will again be proud hindus with no trace of islam...
As of now Islam is know as religion of violence ..a vlienet religion will have only violent end...
Want to know your views on this..
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Chinaar
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PostSubject: No deviation from current topic   Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:08 pm

@admin @troubum

Dear admin,

Please ensure that only the topic on hand is discussed and unneceesary coments by Hindu fanatic Radicals like troubsome should be wiped/terminated ASAP.

Regards Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: JANUARY 5TH 2009 IS SELF DETERMINATION DAY   Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:41 pm

@chinaar

I could delete his post easily, but then the world would'nt be able to witness what 'eloquent' Indian fanatics we have to deal with here.

When they can't think of a better argument and all else fails, it always works for 'eloquent' Indians to brand the freedom movement in Kashmir as "Islamic terrorism", "muslim fundamentalism"; "muslim violence"; and ofcourse none of their vitriol will be complete unless they invoke the Pakistan argument, such as this gentleman did.

If the comment still bothers you, I will remove it.

Thankyou for the good suggestions regarding January 5th.
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WWWWWWWW
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PostSubject: @chinaar,Admin   Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:13 am

@Chinaar,Admin

As per your request I will try to stick to the topic of "Self Determination".

I will suggest that its imperative to follow what UN's stand has been of its own resolution with regards to J&K.
Below is are the two link which are from the past two UN Chiefs, and they are pretty much toeing the same line in the span of 7 years. (I mean they are consistent).

My interpretation of what the chiefs are trying to say is the UN resolution regarding J&K is not enforcable and its only upto India and Pakistan that will combinely address the Issue of J&K.I hope that folks on the forum dosent discard the above stands by UN Chiefs as Propoganda.

Ban-ki-moon (2008)
Kofi Anan (2001)


I am NOT trying to take a stand in favor or against Kashmiris ( I am not an Indian)
And I am NOT RACIST to support a particular race (Kashmiri or otherwise)

I am American Journalist and I have an interest in current issues across the globe.

Thanks.
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WWWWWWWW
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PostSubject: Links   Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:18 am

Below are the links as it didnt got posted earlier.

Ban-ki-moon (2008)
Code:
  http://www.hindu.com/yw/2008/11/11/stories/2008111150120300.htm
Kofi Anan (2001)
Code:
 http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/2001/03/12/stories/01120001.htm
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kits
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PostSubject: Re: JANUARY 5TH 2009 IS SELF DETERMINATION DAY   Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:46 am

@wwwww
Well most folks in Kashmir are in bed by now so I'll man the fort here.

First of all, I seriously doubt you are either an American or a journalist. The simple reason, in my humble Kashmiri journalist opinion, is that most journalists are habitual grammar freaks and your post is rife with grammatical errors. For instance, you would have known that the article "an" should precede the adjective-noun "American journalist". There are other errors as well which I will not list at this time. Maybe that's the way they write english in America; Whatever floats their boat! i could care less.

Coming back to the topic of your smoking-gun evidence by presenting the statement of Ban-Ki-Moon. I really can't figure what you are so excited about? Here is what Ban Ki Moon said
Quote :
Ruling out any United Nations intervention in Kashmir unless both India and Pakistan approached the world body, UN Secretary General Ban Ki Moon hoped the two South Asian neighbours would be able to find a solution to it through dialogue in a peaceful manner
Here is what Kofi Anan said in the other link that you sent
Quote :
The United Nations Secretary-General, Mr. Kofi Annan, has counselled India and Pakistan to resume dialogue in the light of the `Lahore Declaration' for a resolution of all their differences, as the U.N. resolutions on the Kashmir dispute cannot be enforced in the absence of cooperation from them
Quote :
``When it comes to implementation of resolutions, I think we have to be clear here. The U.N. has two types of resolutions - enforcement resolutions under Chapter VII and other resolutions which require cooperation of both parties to get implemented
As we see in the last quote, he refers to cooperation from both India and Pakistan. And I dont think it is very wise of Indians to keep flaunting this statement as it simply projects them at par with other countries such as Israel who routinely do not cooperate with the UN. Non cooperation with UN is something to be ashamed about and not something that you should be proud of.

In neither of the statements has anyone referred to Kashmir as an undisputed "integral" part of India - A stand that India has repeatedly adopted when asked to sit down and resolve this lingering conflict.

What is needed on India's part is maturity to accept that Kashmir is an international dispute involving three sovereign states. India, Pakistan and Kashmir. Before long some dimwit will bring up the asinine argument that the plebiscite option only gives two options of either acceding to India or Pakistan. For them, I simply cite this article of the UN resolution
Quote :
(a) To determine the future of Jammu and Kashmir by the democratic method of the free and impartial plebiscite, to take place as early as possible; Thus to settle this issue between the
Governments of India and Pakistan in accordance with the freely expressed will of the inhabitants, as
is desired by both Governments;
The key sentence here is "in accordance with the freely expressed will of the inhabitants". And therefore, a significant section of the inhabitants of Kashmir want independence and thus this will be one of the three options offered to us in the self-determination.

Here is what I got from the Kashmir Blog

Code:
http://kashmir-truth-be-told.blogspot.com/
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WWWWWWWW
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PostSubject: @kits   Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:58 am

@kits:

Regarding the resolution, please refer to official UN site
Code:
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/missions/unmogip/docs.html
and not personal blogs.

And as far as english is concerned, I dont think I am writing an English Exam here. Moreover In modern times MS Word help to correct the grammer issues. But Thanks for pointing my typos.

I am not excited about anything. As I said I am neutral party.

What is important in the UN Chief's message is that Resoultion is NOT "Enforacble".
That means that UN Can-not enforce it on either party India or Pakistan unless they wish so.

Thanks and Bye.
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